Evidence that God exists

[Rhizomorph13]

Anto,

All good questions and ones I think about a lot. You should look up fallacies they are important and could tighten up both our writing. I appreciate that you like to speak from the heart, I do too but have learned that it quite often ends up getting me into trouble.

Annecdotal evidence is of little value, I'm afraid, when dealing with proofs. I enjoy a good story though.

Rhizo

[Beholden]

There is no universal evidence that any god exists. We can each interpret what we directly experience in our own way, and that is free will. Trying to go beyond human experience is futile, as everything is a human experience. You may accomplish a different, rare human experience, but, well, you're not a fish, I don't think, nor a cabbage or a pudding, you're a human.

Inhibitions are cultural and learned. At one time or another, they were important survival mechanisms, and historically they have become traditions and religions. The vast majority of inhibitions are irrelevant in Western societies in our modern age, as are the religions they were born from. Even Christianity, in all its divers and sundry forms, is irrelevant and out dated. Not even Christians follow the bible, and, fortunately for the rest of the planet, following the bible to the letter is illegal in every country that I'm aware of.

Marraige in its traditional senses is largely antiquated. The historical norms have been heavily modified, from family structures to cultural constraints. This is not the world it was, and nature provides only two options - adaptation or extinction. That any god would create everything knowing beforehand how it would all turn out is very much a Zen concept - It's not the destination, it's the journey. Why would an all-knowing creator god be so insecure and insensitive as to create something intelligent, intentionally confuse it, and then sit back and watch while knowing how it would all turn out anyhow? Strikes me as a bit like lining up dominoes; no question what's going to happen before you even start. Can be a bit of a laugh, of course, a bit of fun, but what theist would want to admit to being nothing but a Holy Domino? Kind of takes the wind out of the whole 'meaning of life' thing.

[fr0d0]

You can directly experience God AS A HUMAN though Beholden. This thread is a bit long now, but the jist of it, and it's purpose is to establish that 'universal proof' is counter the understanding we have of God.

Scientific philosophy holds that science should have all the answers and everything in the universe is physical and nothing else exists. Thoughts, time etc are actually physically existent (they say) although of course this isn't provable right now. Scientific philosophers assume this because there is proof of things which physically exist via physical testing. Therefore things which cannot be physically tested cannot exist.

Christianity continues to be absolutely relevant. Because the reference is historic does not mean we cannot apply the principles to our situation. That's just how it works.

God exists outside of time according to Judaic-Christian definition. There is no contradiction in this.

[Beholden]

Except that there is nothing proven to exist outside of time, or space-time, and christianity has consistently failed to posit any even remotely possible, let alone probable, method whereby that could be accomplished. The contradiction is between the claim that a god or gods has/have always existed, but just got bored in all thieir infinite wisdom and created everything, and the scientifically established fact that there is nothing that is eternal. Even if it's Selenium with it's 130 quintillion year half life, it's still finite.

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, but at least scientists as a whole are still looking, learning, reading, studying and testing to find more and more of them. The bible, despite numerous accounts of having been heavily modified over the last 1700 years is still regarded as useful and relevant by a great many people, despite the fact that the bible does not deal with science, and science has proven the bible wrong in relevant matters.

Let the bible stick with morality, and leave science to science.

[Kyuuketsuki]

That's just how it works.

Kyu

[fr0d0]

Let the bible stick with morality, and leave science to science.

Why do you need religion to prove science for you? You think religion = science right? Let science stick to science and not claim ownership of subjects it's no use at explaining. Same with religion... it answers no scientific questions (no points for that one).

[Kyuuketsuki]

Let the bible stick with morality, and leave science to science.

I'd prefer science to explain morality and people to act on it. The bible's "morality" is questionable at best.

Kyu

[Anto Kennedy]

there is nothing that is eternal.

That's because things are created by God, and God isn't a thing.

[Kyuuketsuki]

there is nothing that is eternal.

That's because things are created by God, and God isn't a thing.

God is a thing (an entity, a being, a creature, a something) and any claim to its existence must be validated, cannot be assumed in the pursuit of reasoned discussion.

Kyu

[fr0d0]

You can't convince Kyu to stop banging his head against that wall - he likes it.