drug rehab state sponsored forced acceptance of god

[darkblight]

first of all the kind words of support really mean quite a bit to me. i do not have many friends irl and well, the people i live with would not take the news that they are living with a "junky" very well so this is a burden i have endured all on my own, for example today i just got back from my meetings, and getting my medication.. luckily enough for a month. to go to this meeting at 9:30 am 15 miles down the road i woke up at 5am, walked 2 hours to a bus stop, took the bus there, did my meeting from 930-1030, then waited there from 1030 to 2pm to see the doctor, just getting home from the 2 hour walk home from where the bus lets off.

today in the group we were asked about the third and fourth step, when it came to me i tried my best to bite my tounge.. but i could not.

in a nut shell i basically said that i did not believe in a higher power, i then got the "well are you the most powerful thing in the world?" question

to which i answered " when it comes to my drug usage no one but me is accountable, and no one but me is going to fix this problem. no amount of praying or hoping is going to stop me from using drugs, that is in my hands"

in this office full of posters talking about God ,in a gov. building i said these things, and the one in charge simply shut me up and moved on, quick. I could tell that the person must of felt i would damage the collective somehow.

where it got really interesting is when i was asked about step 4, making a "fearless" moral inventory of one's self. the one in charge asked me, and everyone else why this would be difficult. i answered " a moral inventory is totally subjective, morality is different to each individual, but being that we are using the AA tenets i know the underlying theme here is catholic/christian morality. the original founders of AA were people enamored with a "SPIRITUAL" method of recovery.
if someone does not believe in souls, spirits, ghosts, demons, boogy-men etc then this program is not going to work for them."

i explained i was here for medicine, and that in order to get this medicine i cannot afford i have to take an AA group, i then asked if passing the group was a requirement, and was told only attending is required, and that passing and failing isnt something they do.


the teacher actually asked me " well if there is no god then where did we come from.. how are we all here, how could there be nothing then something?"

to which i responded: that is a strawman argument, is flawed, and existence does not prove there is a god, is only proves we exist, and frankly the burden of proof is on you not me if you are claiming there is a god... im willing to believe but i require actual proof.


to which i got: well isnt that the kind of thinking that got you here in the first place? ( addicted to drugs )

at that point my head was kind of swirling, i told the woman i didnt feel the last comment was appropriate , and she backed down, and didnt ask me any more questions the rest of class.

heres where i feel like a dick.. if anyone ever in that class, and it is small 6-7 people, used a fake god or religion to quit drugs... GREAT, and i would never want to say anything to them to take that new addiction away and get them back on drugs.. but i have a VERY hard time biting my tounge when it comes to religion.


i am elated to find out i simply need attend the meetings, and a ray of hope came to me... the doctor is an atheist , when he asked my religion i told him and me and him got in a conversation and he told me that he was an atheist, it actually really comforted me to know the person with the final trigger on me getting my medication at least understood where i am coming from.

so i guess this is going to go like i go get my meds and say what i think in class should be an interesting ride.

and to the guy posting alternatives to this.. for the time i do not have a car and this is the only health department without a reasonable distance to me i can take a buss to, so for the moment going all over the place is almost impossible. i should be starting a new job soon tho and making a lil scratch so hopefully i can get some wheels again. I do appreciate the links tho, and i am going to ask the online counselor some questions. it is much appreciated.

[rrpostal]

Well I was going to quibble with you on the the morality comments, because I think what is really meant is more alongthe lines of "take a good, hard look at yourself". It's been a while since I've paid any attention the the specifics of teh steps, but that's not the place I'd make a stand. In general, you know I'd agrees with the concept that is a spiritual recovery program.

But then you dropped the "well that's the sort of thinking that..." line. I think if you are going to do this, you may want to lay a bit more below radar. But that was completely uncalled for. Firstly, I doubt very much you are addicted because you want evidence before believing in something. Secondly, they could use that blanket admonishment for anything at all. You are a worthless sinner, let us break you down and only with help from the magic (rock, tree, higher power -it always cracks me up when they say you're higher power can be a rock, as if that would make any sense at all). It's a meaningless comment designed to simply say you are bad and helpless. And then, to top it off, something didn't come from nothing. Yet, they are the only one's who are saying that. I never have understood how they say with a straight face what amounts to "obviously something can't come from nothing, so it's obvious god made it out of nothing...duh". Meanwhile we never made the claim to begin with.

Hang in there. It'll be funny in a couple years when you're a clean cut bible thumper raving about how stubborn you were in your first 12 step meetings. You'll show your chip and impress all the brash noobs! Just kidding, it's easy to get riled. Pick your battles wisely.

[Epimethean]

Cheers, darkblight. Wishing you the gentlest road to recovery possible.

[Ashendant]

@OP: Can't you explain them that this problem is raising your anxiety, thus endangering your cure? Here in portugal they put psichologists and other technicians to help, in specialized offices around, so it would be as easy as explaining it...

But anyway, like Syn said, feel free to vent around here, I am an ex heroin user, I went cold turkey and its been 11 years and 3 months since I last used! Be strong my friend, there is nothing more powrfull than a man's will, you can do it!

Oh, and feels great to be free! When I was using, I could not imagine life w/o smack, now I am not a slave anymore

I know my country is currently in the crapper and has lot of problems, but they have these excellent brilliant ideas that are worth more than almost aything that comes out of america

[LastPoet]

---

first of all the kind words of support really mean quite a bit to me. i do not have many friends irl and well, the people i live with would not take the news that they are living with a "junky" very well so this is a burden i have endured all on my own, for example today i just got back from my meetings, and getting my medication.. luckily enough for a month. to go to this meeting at 9:30 am 15 miles down the road i woke up at 5am, walked 2 hours to a bus stop, took the bus there, did my meeting from 930-1030, then waited there from 1030 to 2pm to see the doctor, just getting home from the 2 hour walk home from where the bus lets off.

today in the group we were asked about the third and fourth step, when it came to me i tried my best to bite my tounge.. but i could not.

in a nut shell i basically said that i did not believe in a higher power, i then got the "well are you the most powerful thing in the world?" question

to which i answered " when it comes to my drug usage no one but me is accountable, and no one but me is going to fix this problem. no amount of praying or hoping is going to stop me from using drugs, that is in my hands"

in this office full of posters talking about God ,in a gov. building i said these things, and the one in charge simply shut me up and moved on, quick. I could tell that the person must of felt i would damage the collective somehow.

where it got really interesting is when i was asked about step 4, making a "fearless" moral inventory of one's self. the one in charge asked me, and everyone else why this would be difficult. i answered " a moral inventory is totally subjective, morality is different to each individual, but being that we are using the AA tenets i know the underlying theme here is catholic/christian morality. the original founders of AA were people enamored with a "SPIRITUAL" method of recovery.
if someone does not believe in souls, spirits, ghosts, demons, boogy-men etc then this program is not going to work for them."

i explained i was here for medicine, and that in order to get this medicine i cannot afford i have to take an AA group, i then asked if passing the group was a requirement, and was told only attending is required, and that passing and failing isnt something they do.


the teacher actually asked me " well if there is no god then where did we come from.. how are we all here, how could there be nothing then something?"

to which i responded: that is a strawman argument, is flawed, and existence does not prove there is a god, is only proves we exist, and frankly the burden of proof is on you not me if you are claiming there is a god... im willing to believe but i require actual proof.


to which i got: well isnt that the kind of thinking that got you here in the first place? ( addicted to drugs )

at that point my head was kind of swirling, i told the woman i didnt feel the last comment was appropriate , and she backed down, and didnt ask me any more questions the rest of class.

heres where i feel like a dick.. if anyone ever in that class, and it is small 6-7 people, used a fake god or religion to quit drugs... GREAT, and i would never want to say anything to them to take that new addiction away and get them back on drugs.. but i have a VERY hard time biting my tounge when it comes to religion.


i am elated to find out i simply need attend the meetings, and a ray of hope came to me... the doctor is an atheist , when he asked my religion i told him and me and him got in a conversation and he told me that he was an atheist, it actually really comforted me to know the person with the final trigger on me getting my medication at least understood where i am coming from.

so i guess this is going to go like i go get my meds and say what i think in class should be an interesting ride.

and to the guy posting alternatives to this.. for the time i do not have a car and this is the only health department without a reasonable distance to me i can take a buss to, so for the moment going all over the place is almost impossible. i should be starting a new job soon tho and making a lil scratch so hopefully i can get some wheels again. I do appreciate the links tho, and i am going to ask the online counselor some questions. it is much appreciated.

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You show them, you can get clean without substituting drugs for a servile delusion! Its sickening how religion likes to hit where there are people in distress, like a predator for human suffering, gah

And I think you weren't being a dick, you just explained your view and defend yourself from some really BM comments from that jerk. Yeah you need to pick up the pieces and rebuild your life, it isn't easy but is rewarding.

---

I know my country is currently in the crapper and has lot of problems, but they have these excellent brilliant ideas that are worth more than almost aything that comes out of america

Yeah, the CAT system here was being very efficient, with the help of legislation. The problem is that since we are in the crapper yhose services will get alot of expense cuts, I know this because my sister is a psychologist in one and probably will lose her job. and all the good work being done till now will evaporate.