Threats and Intimidation, Go Religion!

[Epimethean]

I do hope you mean that. I fucking hate bullies, but I have a hard time sympathizing for those who just roll over for them.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm absolutely serious. I'm not very talented when it comes to social interaction in the first place, and whenever I feel that someone is trying to physically intimidate I don't really know how to handle it with tact. Not saying that I go all chest thumping and heavy breathing. But that is exactly what I say, in a calm and polite manner, when I'm threatened with physical violence.

And before you ask....Central Kentucky..so yes, people around "these parts" actually do think it's okay to use intimidation as leverage with an absolute stranger. In situations as petty as a disagreement over a parking spot, to cutting them off in traffic and of course your run of the mill good ole boys who've plainly had too many to drink.

[Epimethean]

My family moved from rural Ohio to Arizona when I was nine. I had been used to gentle kids in a gentle setting. When we first moved to Tucson, we rented a house near the air force base. What a travesty of education that school was, with two and three grades all mixed into one massive setting, rooms the size of cafeterias, with teachers and aides wandering here and there and getting exactly nothing done. First day of school, this gigantic blonde kid, a sixth grader who had been held back twice (so sizewise, an eighth grader), decides he doesn't like me and proceeds to beat the shit out of me on the playground. The fucker did that every chance he got all year long. Turned me mean. I couldn't beat him, but I got to the point where I could hurt him. Fast forward thirty odd years, lots of martial arts classes, powerlifting, policework, bouncing at pubs on weekends, and I fucking want to kill anything that threatens littler, more gentle things, every chance I get.

If you don't fight it, you accept it.

[Judas BentHer]

And yet fighting it isn't the full on issue here. Certainly the pilots are either religious and in accord with the consensus that atheist adverts should be prohibited at all costs, or they're simply gutless and fear if they don't go along to get along the word of sheep against them for that may stand to impact their business in future.

We have all had the opportunity to see reactionaries calling for boycotts on the sidewalk in front of radio stations and businesses. We've read online calls to activism against product manufacturers, and some years ago Christian "family values" watchdog groups made the news threatening to picket and boycott and harass a network broadcasting during prime time, if they dared air a Trojans condom commercial.
You know, because seeing a condom inspires sex and prophylactic protection against STD's and especially the certain killer that is HIV/AIDS is immoral. Abstinence is the only answer. Otherwise, we'll picket, harass, threaten, intimidate, jeer, and make national news demonstrating what Jesus would do. (Beam with pride, while wearing little gold cross)

So what's to do?

I hate bullies. Their kind shouldn't be tolerated in schools. Their victims shouldn't be expelled or suspended when they fight back against what is terrorism by definition. Send the message to a bully in a language they can understand. When they raise a hand to you, feed it to them so they choke on it and maybe learn a lesson that involves the simple message; don't fuck with me or I'll destroy you piece at a time until you stop!

And yet, in the business market how's that work exactly?

Atheists can't force these intimidated pilots in the OP to grow some guts. And woe to us all if we think to force them to serve our business of flying atheist banners for pay. Because imagine what that precedent would bode for everyone if that success through some means of our own threats, intimidation, coercion, achieved success and as such was pursued as a matter of law. Making it illegal for a business to refuse service to anyone.

This article is about us, now. Discrimination against atheism and our full on inalienable right to not only speak freely but to also be free from religion. And yet, if we think we can become the bullies now and force a business to serve us against their will, imagine the repercussions for everyone.

Imagine the lever that would provide for terrorist, intolerant, arrogant, discriminatory, bigot Theists. One more avenue to force their will upon others by law, because free choice to refuse business to anyone is no longer an option.

The good news is, in the OP, not all pilots were chickenshits. And the message is flying high.

It was said if you don't fight it, you accept it. In many respects with regard to many issues that is spot on. However, it's important to pick one's battles wisely. Looking at the full picture which includes the repercussions and how it can all be turned around to work against, in this case, us.

Do we want to force pilots, or bus companies, or taxi services, to carry the atheist message?

How can we do that and then say it's all because we want to stop Christian bigots from forcing their mythological ideology down the throats of a public consumer base that must be presumed to have enough intellect to decide for themselves what to think about any given advertisement that rolls or flies past. The same base as atheists paying for ad space presume are capable of reading and considering the atheist message as well.

Because there is no doubt Theists are frightened of our community. Not that that's news however, Theism is losing it's membership every day. Atheist book titles in 2007 out sold Theist for the first time in publishing history. The Church of England in 2007 blamed Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the exodus of women from their congregation!
How desperate to put the blame everywhere else, even on bad TV fiction, rather than giving credit to parishioners for daring to exercise their free will, that is a fine thing when it's held responsible for making them a damned sinner, and their free thought to arrive at a different conclusion about the superstition they'd accepted on faith before is no longer making sense, because it simply isn't working in their life any more.

Sure, it's easy to say if you don't fight it you accept it.
However there's another cliche that applies here. If you become like unto your enemy, you make an enemy of yourself and that foe gains two victories.

I don't bitch because not all pilots accepted the contract to fly atheist adverts on July 4th. I thank free choice in business practice, that any pilot chose to send the message at all. They're in business to do business. Forcing them to do business because we're atheists and are entitled to keep them in business, is taking on the guise of bully in our own right. And after all, if they (pilots, etc...) wouldn't fight that, then they'd have to simply accept it.

[Judas BentHer]

Oh wow, like chat kill dude.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're absolutely right, of course. What can I say, not all of my opinions are well reasoned. I suppose it's just longing for a world where people stand up for each other, consequences be damned.

[Judas BentHer]

You're absolutely right, of course. What can I say, not all of my opinions are well reasoned.

Nor are mine at times, of course.

I suppose it's just longing for a world where people stand up for each other, consequences be damned.

I'm all for that and exercise my prerogative in that regard when necessary. What I think is the bigger picture is standing up in this case, presenting a united front of the non-Theist and pissed off and at the same time setting a standard that can be used against us, as well.

It sucks that Theist values intimidate people into revoking the same rights and freedoms Theists believe are their exclusive domain, simply because those discriminated against are so because they are not part of the herd.
The hypocrisy is astounding and blatant. As it is with any monotheistic belief system that first purports itself to be the one and only way to one and only ideal god. Hell, even Christians fight among themselves as to who's point of view is correct when they engage in secularism. So while one can hope they end up destroying themselves warring over who's imaginary friend kicks more ass, the reality is for the majority of citizens in this country Christianity reigns supreme and tolerance for those who don't agree does too.

After all, Christians sell a zombie that they accept promises to save them from itself, door to door. The lack of intellect that is required to worship that ideology as holy is no match for the rationale that proclaims, if you expect freedom you must respect others entitlement to freedom.

As a consequence, to insist the freedom to conduct one's business as they choose must be abridged in order to placate those who insist on being served, is just as dangerous a proposition as is intolerant bigot monotheism that implies no atheist has any right to say through any medium, that the god of centuries old tradition is the stuff of fable.

I may be a lot of things to the reader Theist (and atheist alike ) however, one thing I'd like to think I am is fair in thinking if we want to stand up for one another as atheists we have to set the higher standard that freedom of and freedom from are not just relegated to matters of religious cult tradition.

I'd certainly stand against someone telling me my business must serve that what I do not wish to serve, or sell that what I do not wish to sell. And as such, I understand others feeling they are entitled to do the same. It may suck however the alternative I venture to say would suck far worse.

And besides, freedom of speech isn't guaranteed within the private sector. One can't insist a private entity allow one to say whatever they wish. There are limits to freedom, as we all know. And as mentioned, it's a victory that many pilots did agree to fly the message. Which optimistically speaking, may have set an example to the others that refused. As in, bu$iness is business. It's an airport Advertising company, not a church.

[The Grand Nudger]

With the minor nitpick about tolerance I made in the other thread you make a very excellent point. My opinions on many matters are as bigoted as the theists positions that I argue against, and may do absolutely nothing to help "the cause", but at least my bigotry is mine and mine alone no?

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as an aside that hadn't occurred to me before...I also don't feel the need to be the "better man" than the theist to somehow convince him that my position is valid or that I have a right to be heard. The man may have more moral fiber in his pinky than I do in my entire body, and his delusion is still just a delusion, isn't it.

[Epimethean]

My perspective rests on two issues here: That some of the pilots were NOT christian and were self-espoused atheists, and that, in a business model, the economics should drive it-not an atmosphere of fear. It has nothing to do with forcing them to fly, nor should criticism of the cowardice of the one set be construed as a wish to compel them to fly. Rather, it is a lament that they cannot see the capitulation to what they might purport to fight against in their actions.

[MilesTailsPrower]

No, I should have elaborated, but I'm drunk. It pisses me off that people are afraid to fly the atheist flags because they're scared of retaliation. This country is so afraid of people that don't believe in God that atheists are afraid to spread their message.

I'll spread the message? It's not like when an atheist is flying a plane, a bolt of lightning sent would strike him.

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My family moved from rural Ohio to Arizona when I was nine. I had been used to gentle kids in a gentle setting. When we first moved to Tucson, we rented a house near the air force base. What a travesty of education that school was, with two and three grades all mixed into one massive setting, rooms the size of cafeterias, with teachers and aides wandering here and there and getting exactly nothing done. First day of school, this gigantic blonde kid, a sixth grader who had been held back twice (so sizewise, an eighth grader), decides he doesn't like me and proceeds to beat the shit out of me on the playground. The fucker did that every chance he got all year long. Turned me mean. I couldn't beat him, but I got to the point where I could hurt him. Fast forward thirty odd years, lots of martial arts classes, powerlifting, policework, bouncing at pubs on weekends, and I fucking want to kill anything that threatens littler, more gentle things, every chance I get.

If you don't fight it, you accept it.

Lol I couldn't resist this