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Hi all, I asked a question about the bible recently and was very pleased by the feedback i got. I am only sixteen turning seventeen next month, however my whole life I have been raised in a christian setting, church, school, friends, pretty much everything christian. But in the past year I turned to atheism simply because I started to read the bible and realize I didnt truly BEILIEVE in any of it. Naturally, when I started telling people around me a shitstorm blew up. Ive been thrown into countless debates which, to be totally honest, some have left me thoruoughly confused. At the encouragment of my pastor Ive been visiting various apolegtic websites. and a lot of what they say I had no strong answer for. So i was hoping I could get the perspective of some non christians. There are many that have troubled me but Ill start with just this one about atheist cant explain logic so I dont annoy the members lol. Thanks for your help I look forward to hearing your answers
July 7, 2011 at 11:30 am (This post was last modified: July 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Gonna give that link a looksie. In the meantime, I would like to say that the only thing you need to justify, in atheism, is your non-belief in god(s). In other words, all you have to say is "I don't believe".
As for the arguments they propose, you aren't required to have an answer to all (or even any) of them. You could go the route of Minimalist, and simply demand that they provide evidence for the existence of god before they make an argument with the implied assumption that he/she/it exists.
My personal favorite, when I don't want to engage in a lengthy debate or educate myself on a subject otherwise uninteresting to me, and pressed to "explain that" is to reply "I can't, and neither can you".
Believers are simply trying to exhaust you with words. There's a name for that type of argument..lol.
nvm, took me half a second to browse the link. The "Laws of Logic" are descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, that things appear to follow logic is only an observation of how things seem to be. Things do not seem to be this way because the "Laws of Logic" have any power over them. Clear that up for you at all?
Taking the conclusion at the bottom of that link:
1: baseless assertion
2: baseless assertion
3: is not derived from 1 or 2
4: does not follow from 1, 2, or 3.
Who the hell comes up with this shit anyway? Perhaps you should start responding with the equally flawed "When did you start lying for Jesus ?". Don't allow them to argue about whether or not they're telling the truth, just keep pressing them for a date. They probably won't see the irony, but it makes for a good laugh.
Here's a link which might help you, in all seriousness:
It's a clearing house of the holes in common apologetic arguments.
:edited for grammar, missing words, completeness, and general hilarity:
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Just use that until you've thoroughly looking into all the contradictions and fallacious arguments they use. After that, they might just refrain from starting any future debates with you. Knowledge will be your greatest weapon, for it is their greatest weakness.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
(July 7, 2011 at 11:30 am)Rhythm Wrote: Gonna give that link a looksie. In the meantime, I would like to say that the only thing you need to justify, in atheism, is your non-belief in god(s). In other words, all you have to say is "I don't believe".
As for the arguments they propose, you aren't required to have an answer to all (or even any) of them. You could go the route of Minimalist, and simply demand that they provide evidence for the existence of god before they make an argument with the implied assumption that he/she/it exists.
My personal favorite, when I don't want to engage in a lengthy debate or educate myself on a subject otherwise uninteresting to me, and pressed to "explain that" is to reply "I can't, and neither can you".
Believers are simply trying to exhaust you with words. There's a name for that type of argument..lol.
nvm, took me half a second to browse the link. The "Laws of Logic" are descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, that things appear to follow logic is only an observation of how things seem to be. Things do not seem to be this way because the "Laws of Logic" have any power over them. Clear that up for you at all?
Taking the conclusion at the bottom of that link:
1:baseless assertion
2: baseless assertion
3: is not derived from 1 or 2
4: does not follow from 1, 2, or 3.
Who the hell comes up with this shit anyway? Perhaps you should start responding with the equally flawed "When did you start lying for Jesus ?". Don't allow them to argue about whether or not they're telling the truth, just keep pressing them for a date. They probably won't see the irony, but it makes for a good laugh.
wow you explained that perfectly. How the hell did i miss that lol??? Thanks, nice to finally talk to people who dont respond with "The Holy Spirit assures me!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(July 7, 2011 at 12:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Well, the holy spirit does assure me.
How? I nailed the holy spirit to an unholy cross with unholy nails last week. He doesn't appear to be moving anymore. Perhaps I should poke him with a pointy stick....
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
July 7, 2011 at 12:09 pm (This post was last modified: July 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I have a preexisting contract with said entity, as such, any change in policy for new subscribers does not apply to me. Grandfathering and all.
Can I haz moar rep plz?!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
The answer to the question is one which we see around here all the time from the mentally challenged theists who infest the site....(you'll know them immediately, they think they have fucking halos on their heads.)
Quote:The Christian worldview states that God is the author of truth, logic, physical laws,
They put this out as their premise but they skip step #1. The assert that there is a god ( and always THEIR god, btw) without providing any evidence that such a preposterous being actually exists.
First they need to demonstrate by evidence that their silly-ass concept of god exists. Failing that, they are nothing but a bunch of fanatics pissing into the wind.
Just use that until you've thoroughly looking into all the contradictions and fallacious arguments they use. After that, they might just refrain from starting any future debates with you. Knowledge will be your greatest weapon, for it is their greatest weakness.
(July 7, 2011 at 12:09 pm)Minimalist Wrote: First they need to demonstrate by evidence that their silly-ass concept of god exists. Failing that, they are nothing but a bunch of fanatics pissing into the wind.
I think their point about the laws of logic is that is proof of god. Somehow the human ability to label the nature of the universe is 'proof' of a higher being.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
