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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 2:19 pm
(August 4, 2011 at 11:01 am)Rhythm Wrote: The only sanctioned use of my singing voice is under the wifes strict supervision. To question her authority in this regard would lead to beheadings. The pitfalls of being a kept man.
(beheadings of the type one would survive, btw)
You call yourself a 'kept man' when you have a beard like that?! 
I guess I can call myself sexy, because if you squint really hard and use your imagination in a completely dark room: you might see it! 
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 2:22 pm
(August 4, 2011 at 2:19 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: I guess I can call myself sexy
You do call yourself sexy. All the bloody time.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2011 at 2:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Never said I was well kept. I live under a sort of general neglect induced by the volume of toddlers to adults in my household. I'm very pretty under the fur..the fur is in fact another mandate of the wife. Ripped and worn clothes, lack of access to razors, I'm being oppressed. You don't think I have anything to offer other than looks do you? My wife clearly didn't secure me in a legal agreement for my mind, or any other intangible. I keep trying to get her to make an account. She's a born again christian from a born again christian family. Would blow some posters minds that we get along.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:55 pm
(August 4, 2011 at 10:36 am)Napoleon Wrote: I meant time as in the measurement of time, by what we see as an hour, a day, a second etc. Those labels were created by us. My own fault for not specifiying.
Well sure, but that misses the OPs point about time.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 11:04 pm
(August 4, 2011 at 2:22 pm)Napoleon Wrote: (August 4, 2011 at 2:19 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: I guess I can call myself sexy
You do call yourself sexy. All the bloody time.
It's one of those pesky benefits to being your supreme overlordess ^_^
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 5, 2011 at 12:23 pm
(August 4, 2011 at 10:55 pm)theVOID Wrote: (August 4, 2011 at 10:36 am)Napoleon Wrote: I meant time as in the measurement of time, by what we see as an hour, a day, a second etc. Those labels were created by us. My own fault for not specifiying.
Well sure, but that misses the OPs point about time.
Does it?
He/She said there would be no point to the passage of time. I was trying to point out that time only has a point because WE measure it.
Obviously objectively it serves other purposes but I was under the impression that the OP was talking about something subjective (consciousness).
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Wait, so he's saying that for something to exist, you have to prove it? But then for you to prove it, it has to exist. But then you have to prove it to exist so that it can exist for you to prove it? *vomits from dizziness*
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 5, 2011 at 7:55 pm
(August 3, 2011 at 2:36 am)PlatinumDoodles Wrote: I am an atheist through and through, so please do not take what I'm about to say the wrong way, I'm simply about to play devil's advocate.
If you say that something can exist without the need to prove it, then why can't God exist without us proving that he/she/whatever does?
Oh, it would be possible for a conscious, omnipotent, omnipresent, powerful God to exist and not to provide proof or evidence for His/Her/Its/Their existence. Such a being could be performing some kind of experiment or the like with the universe, and taking a "hands off" approach.
The question there is, since this being will not act on anything you do or believe or feel or say or teach, why then call this being God, and furthermore why pay any attention? It is de-facto the same as if there is no God.
This was part of one set of beliefs I went through in my deconversion process. Purusa from the Samkhya belief system - a being who is Pure Consciousness, knows everything, but does not act. What is the benefit in holding this belief, since Purusa does not care, and i it does not and will not matter?
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 5, 2011 at 10:31 pm
(August 5, 2011 at 12:23 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Does it?
He/She said there would be no point to the passage of time. I was trying to point out that time only has a point because WE measure it.
Obviously objectively it serves other purposes but I was under the impression that the OP was talking about something subjective (consciousness).
I gota disagree, it doesn't only have a point because we measure it, it has a point because of the change in the increase of the disorder of a system, without time nothing would progress and entropy would not exist - Our measurement of time is really just a way to quantify regularities, such as the motion of the earth around the sun, the frequency a caesium atom vibrates in an atomic clock etc.
I believe the point the OP was trying to make in this regard is that because all 'moments' in time exist simultaneously in our 4dimensional universe there in a sense exists both consciousness and the universe simultaneously, just like the two dots on this line .--------. exist 'simultaneously', it was his conclusion from this that is misguided, he was arguing that because consciousness and the beginning of the universe exist simultaneously from a 4th dimensional perspective consciousness must be a necessary part.
This is of course under the premise of a B-Theory of time.
His whole argument was essentially a big non sequitur.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 6, 2011 at 6:51 am
If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman there to correct him, is he still wrong?
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