Posts: 1497
Threads: 29
Joined: February 16, 2010
Reputation:
23
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 3:35 pm by Thor.)
(August 18, 2011 at 3:22 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: P1. All dogs fly
P2. Daisy is a Dog
C. Therefore, Daisy flies
Is a valid argument, it is not a sound one though.
How is this a valid argument? It starts with a faulty premise.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
Posts: 67163
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:40 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 3:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Arguments can be valid without being sound. Right Statler?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1985
Threads: 12
Joined: October 12, 2010
Reputation:
24
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:48 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm by Statler Waldorf.)
(August 18, 2011 at 3:34 pm)Thor Wrote: (August 18, 2011 at 3:22 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: P1. All dogs fly
P2. Daisy is a Dog
C. Therefore, Daisy flies
Is a valid argument, it is not a sound one though.
How is this a valid argument? It starts with a faulty premise.
An argument's validity has nothing to do with whether the premises are true or not but only whether the conclusion logically follows the premises. Now a sound argument is both valid and the premises are true. The dog argument above is not a sound argument but it is a valid one because if all dogs could fly, and Daisy is a dog then logically we could conclude that Daisy could also fly.
This will help...
http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/arg/valid1.php
(August 18, 2011 at 3:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Arguments can be valid without being sound. Right Statler?
Correct, but arguments cannot be sound without first being valid.
Posts: 67163
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your god argument then Statler, is valid.......but not what? 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1985
Threads: 12
Joined: October 12, 2010
Reputation:
24
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm
(August 18, 2011 at 3:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Your god argument then Statler, is valid.......but not what?
Which one?
Posts: 67163
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Honestly, any of them, but specifically your argument from the innerrancy of scripture.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1985
Threads: 12
Joined: October 12, 2010
Reputation:
24
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 4:00 pm
(August 18, 2011 at 3:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Honestly, any of them, but specifically your argument from the innerrancy of scripture.
Oh, well logicians have spent centuries debating about whether the other ones are or not. I would never use the scripture one to prove God exists; I was just using it to prove that there are numerous valid arguments for God's existence. Scripture's inerrancy is more a matter of presupposition than anything else. So I believe it is a sound argument, but it is impossible to demonstrate it is or it isn't, hence why I don’t utilize it in debate.
Posts: 67163
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 4:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You believe it is a sound argument, or it is a sound argument? Not so subtle difference. Is presupposition the basis of many sound arguments?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1985
Threads: 12
Joined: October 12, 2010
Reputation:
24
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 4:08 pm
(August 18, 2011 at 4:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You believe it is a sound argument, or it is a sound argument? Not so subtle difference. Is presupposition the basis of many sound arguments?
Sure I believe it is a sound argument because I believe scripture is inerrant and scripture says that God exists, so both premises are true. You would disagree with the first premise; however this is a premise that can neither be proven or disproven so that is why I don't use the argument. It just doesn’t get us anywhere. Sure presuppositions can be used in sound arguments, they have to be. One must presuppose logic in order to even use logic.
Posts: 67163
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Modern Science Owe Its Existence to Religion?
August 18, 2011 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2011 at 4:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So the presupposition that god does not exist is just as valid, yes? I'm also wondering why you feel that the status of scriptures inerrancy is not subject to being proven or disproven? Also, if you cannot prove your assumptions, you own words here, does that make the argument sound? Tired of the old axe about presupposing logic. This is complete bullshit. If we found an instance where logic would lead us to the exact opposite position of observable reality we would call bullshit wouldn't we. Descriptive, not prescriptive.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
