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I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm
First of all, what about all the fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament? If we, as skeptics contend, do not really know who wrote the books of the Bible, then how do we know that they "fit in" the prophecies from the Old Testament that were about Christ, to the New Testament?
Secondly, why not make up a messianic figure who would be a politlcal/military deliverer from Rome-which, AFIK, is what the Jews of the time expected the messiah to be. Then we would know that the NT (and the rest of the Bible) to be nonsense. But that is not what we find-we find someone who spoke to a Samaritan woman-when Samaritan's were considered racial half-breeds by the Jews, and a woman's testimony was not considered valid in court at the time.
With all due respect to everyone on this site, why would any of this be made up???
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 6, 2011 at 9:43 pm
I thought you were mabus for a second, and I got all excited.
And then you weren't 
Why: power. It's a nice thing to have, but you being poor probably don't understand it 
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 6, 2011 at 10:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 6, 2011 at 11:03 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:First of all, what about all the fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament?
What about the ones that 'god' fucked up?
http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm
Maybe it's just me but shouldn't 'god' bat 1.000?
Quote:Secondly, why not make up a messianic figure who would be a politlcal/military deliverer from Rome
Because the Romans kept slaughtering all the guys who tried that. Even worse than a crucified 'god' is one who gets the shit kicked out of him by the 5th Legion.
You need to look at the whole bullshit story...absurd as it is. The idea is that jesus had to SUFFER in order to satisfy his dad...who was really him although that part wasn't written until a lot later...to appease his dad...which was really him for all of man's awful sins against his dad...who was really him. There was no more disreputable/painful death in the Roman world than crucifixion. Of course, 'god' isn't really dead he wakes up and ascends to fucking heaven so he really didn't suffer all that much.
How far would they have gotten if they claimed that the Messiah HAD defeated Rome? That claim is immediately falsifiable and Caesar would have gotten really pissed.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 4:11 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 4:13 am by Joe Bloe.)
(August 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: With all due respect to everyone on this site, why would any of this be made up??? Cash, power and control:
Ask the leaders of the Mormons, the Scientologists and the John Frum cultists on Tanna Island.
Christian leaders - much the same.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 5:03 am
I know what Dave means, its a pretty shitty story that tries to explain why their sainted leader was executed.
It would be like history written by the branch davidians after wacco.
For this reason I suspect that jesus was a real person, (despite the lack of any contemporaneaus evidence), simply because of the way people justify things to themselves.
It seems to me that this wuld be exactly the sort of bullshit people in a cult would make up if their leader was killed, martydom is a powerfull thin.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 6:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 6:22 am by Justtristo.)
(August 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: First of all, what about all the fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament? If we, as skeptics contend, do not really know who wrote the books of the Bible, then how do we know that they "fit in" the prophecies from the Old Testament that were about Christ, to the New Testament?
Secondly, why not make up a messianic figure who would be a politlcal/military deliverer from Rome-which, AFIK, is what the Jews of the time expected the messiah to be. Then we would know that the NT (and the rest of the Bible) to be nonsense. But that is not what we find-we find someone who spoke to a Samaritan woman-when Samaritan's were considered racial half-breeds by the Jews, and a woman's testimony was not considered valid in court at the time.
With all due respect to everyone on this site, why would any of this be made up???
I will agree with Albert Schweitzer and Bart Ehrman, that the historical Jesus was an Apocalyptic Prophet and that he was executed by crucifixion for sedition (preaching the Kingdom of God vs the Kingdom of Caesar would be enough). Although he does not seem have been a military figure, because if he had been his followers would have been executed as well..
His followers after his death believed he had been resurrected from the dead, I have no idea how they came up with that. These followers thought that his resurrection vindicated their belief he was a Jewish Messiah, the Son of God (which in Judaism meant someone favored by god, like King David was) and the "son of man".
(August 7, 2011 at 5:03 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: I know what Dave means, its a pretty shitty story that tries to explain why their sainted leader was executed.
It would be like history written by the branch davidians after wacco.
Man I would want to seriously read their account of the waco siege.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 6:31 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2011 at 6:32 am by TheAtheistTroll.)
(August 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Secondly, why not make up a messianic figure who would be a politlcal/military deliverer from Rome-which, AFIK, is what the Jews of the time expected the messiah to be.
Because surprisingly, middle-eastern shepherds in 100 AD were pretty shitty writers.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 7:22 am
(August 7, 2011 at 6:21 am)Ziggystardust Wrote: Man I would want to seriously read their account of the waco siege.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo...324263.ece
The interesting thing is that some of them still believe in david koresh as the new messiah.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 8:25 am
Simple enough, Paul was a nutter.
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RE: I still don't understand why anyone would make up a person like the Biblical Christ..
August 7, 2011 at 8:42 am
(August 7, 2011 at 7:22 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: (August 7, 2011 at 6:21 am)Ziggystardust Wrote: Man I would want to seriously read their account of the waco siege.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo...324263.ece
The interesting thing is that some of them still believe in david koresh as the new messiah.
Thank You very much
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