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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm
(August 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm)CoxRox Wrote: These experiences have the SAME physical manifestations. I' ve proposed no hidden mechanisms. I' ve explained a set of experiences that were very real to me, and on investigation have been very real to people of differing religious backgrounds.
No one is claiming it wasn't very real to you, but to reiterate the overall theme of the responses to you, you are deeming this to have been an external force when there are much better reasons to believe it to have been internal.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 4:30 pm
(August 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: (August 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm)CoxRox Wrote: These experiences have the SAME physical manifestations. I' ve proposed no hidden mechanisms. I' ve explained a set of experiences that were very real to me, and on investigation have been very real to people of differing religious backgrounds.
No one is claiming it wasn't very real to you, but to reiterate the overall theme of the responses to you, you are deeming this to have been an external force when there are much better reasons to believe it to have been internal.
I believe it was both.
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2011 at 4:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Oh so many times I post this.
I believe is not equal to It is
If you can't separate yourself from your claim then you will find difficulty having a discussion about this. You may not believe that these explanations you've been given aren't acceptable, that does not mean that they actually ARE unacceptable. I would swear to you that I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no idea what it was to this day, sadly I know what it was not. I saw "something" but it wasn't a ghost, and I felt "something" but it wasn't a "force".
The supernatural has been tested six ways to Sunday. I'm not shouting you down, I just feel that you should already know this if it's something you're looking into.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 4:53 pm
(August 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Oh so many times I post this.
I believe is not equal to It is
If you can't separate yourself from your claim then you will find difficulty having a discussion about this. You may not believe that these explanations you've been given aren't acceptable, that does not mean that they actually ARE unacceptable. I would swear to you that I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no idea what it was to this day, sadly I know what it was not. I saw "something" but it wasn't a ghost, and I felt "something" but it wasn't a "force".
All the explanations offered are valid and 'make sense'.
I don't understand your statement:' 'I believe' is not equal to 'it is'.' Surely both statements are 'unproveable'?
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
Albert Einstein
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm
If we couldn't distinguish between our beliefs and reality we would be in a very bad way. Sorry I missed you in chat, was away from the keyboard for a bit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 5:05 pm
(August 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If we couldn't distinguish between our beliefs and reality we would be in a very bad way. Sorry I missed you in chat, was away from the keyboard for a bit.
Hence why I place a considerable amount of 'faith' for want of a better word, in the reality of the said experience. I wasn't a child who may have misunderstood what I was experiencing. I wasn't under the influence of any drugs. I wasn't unduly emotional or craving acceptance. I was just in a meeting. I wouldn't have guessed in a million years that a 'power' would show up like it did. I must acknowledge the effects on my physical system that ensued thus verifying the reality of what was taking place. I do however understand others skepticism. I would be the same if someone said they'd seen an alien.
We'll chat at some point no doubt.... 
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
Albert Einstein
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Again, you don't need to be a child, or drunk, or fatigued, anything to have an experience like this. You don't grow up or out of being a human being. I understand that you aren't explicitly making an argument, but the argument you could make is flawed for the same reason that your testimony is flawed. You are human. You say you aren't proposing a mechanism, okay, why at a prayer meeting? Why not while staring at an oak leaf?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm
(August 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Again, you don't need to be a child, or drunk, or fatigued, anything to have an experience like this. You don't grow up or out of being a human being. I understand that you aren't explicitly making an argument, but the argument you could make is flawed for the same reason that your testimony is flawed. You are human. You say you aren't proposing a mechanism, okay, why at a prayer meeting? Why not while staring at an oak leaf?
Sorry, I have misunderstood you. Yes, there was a 'mechanism' involved in this experience ie several like minded people praying to a god. Did I say I wasn't proposing a mechanism?
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
Albert Einstein
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
A specific god? Was a priest involved? What denomination of church? You said you were just describing an experience. You aren't, you're assuming the supernatural, assuming interaction, and THEN describing an experience. Yes you gave the nod to biology, with the caveat that there is something more to this life, and that many religious traditions agree on some sort of energy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What 'force' was this?
August 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm
CoxRox, it almost sounds as if you need it to be an outside force, and any physiological explanation is insufficient because it means admitting you were fooled by your own brain. Your biggest flaw in trying to understand your experience is not realizing how powerful the brain is and understanding the tricks it can play. You try to justify your thinking by saying you weren't on drugs etc., but as Rhythm pointed out, none of that is needed to hallucinate. Your human brain is not entirely reliable.
There is no need for a supernatural explanation for your experience.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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