What 'force' was this?

[CoxRox]

Hi guys. I had a weird experience about two years ago and would appreciate your opinions on what it could have been:

I'd gone along to a small house church meeting one sunny Saturday. There were about six of us. This was my first time there so I didn't know the people personally. After a bit of guitar playing (no, it wasn't kumbaya) there was 'prayer'. They asked me if I would like to be prayed for. I didn't mind, so I stood up and they stood around me praying. A few of them 'laid hands' on me as they prayed, which just involved them touching my shoulder or back as they prayed. After a few minutes of this (I wasn't really thinking of anything as such) I could feel a power in the room. It was coming down on me in waves. I was quite surprised at this as no one had said to me or prayed 'feel God's power' or anything to that effect. There had been no 'suggestions' of that kind. This 'power' came in stronger and stronger 'waves' so that I had to kneel, or I would have fallen I think. I realised i had tears streaming down my face, but I wasn't sad about anything. Nothing came to mind other than me just going with this 'physical' weird stuff. The sides of my abdomen were 'heaving', like the muscles relaxing then contracting. This 'force' kept on coming and all the while i'm thinking what is this? It must be God. I had to keep lowering my body til I was Kneeling with my upperbody down on the floor (I've since learned this is a 'classic yoga position'??? After a while the power eased off and I got up, wiped my nose and sat back down. No one else had been 'effected' by this power it seemed.

I know the power was real because of it's effect on my body. (I forgot to mention, I was trembling and shaking, which I had no control over while the power was bearing down on me).
One possibility is that the combined 'energies' of the people, their close proximity to me allowed for 'kinetic'? energies to be intensified. This is a strong possibility I think, although I would add that the 'force' seemed to be coming from 'above' us. It didn't feel like it was coming from those next to me. Also, I 'sensed' that this 'force' was being controlled. I know that sounds far fetched and I could be mistaken in how I perceived it. It 'seemed' controlled in that it came in waves that seemed to be causing me to lower myself to the ground, so it was strong but gentle at the same time.

Another possibility is that the guy whose house I was in, had built some weird contraption that he'd pointed downwards through the ceiling and it was 'firing' some weird energy !

Well, I'm sure Derren Brown would have a good explanation, but I know that what I experienced was a 'real' power because of the effects it had on me physically. I was not effected mentally ie I didn't lose consciousness, I didn't feel weird or 'different'.

One last point: I've been to many meetings in churches, where people go up the 'front' and fall back, after some guy has touched (pushed) them. I've gone up once or twice just to prove to myself what this nonsense is. They didn't 'make' me fall back. (I could feel one of them slightly pushing me). I'm very skeptical of stuff like this, but now that I have experienced a 'force' that is 'out there' but elusive, I'm convinced that there's more to 'life' than meets the eye.

[downbeatplumb]

The power of suggestion.

You were expecting something to happen were in a suggestable frame of mind and something happened.

Sometimes your brain is your own worst enemy.

[Darwinian]

The Lord works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.

However, they always seem to be in ways that can be explained by rational methods that don't break the laws of nature, even if at first you can't see how.

Welcome back again

[Faith No More]

Our conscious thought process is only a tiny part of what the brain is doing at any given time, so the fact that you were not actively thinking you should feel something doesn't mean your subconscious wasn't expecting it anyway. Our brains are extremely complicated and very flawed which makes our unconfirmable experiences highly questionable. Plus, we are highly prone to suggestion such as the act of being prayed for.

One of the subconsious processes our brain is constantly going through is developing our body and mind schemas. What these are are our brain's ability to be self aware of our physical and mental selves. Often times when our mind schema goes awry, we perceive internal influences to be external. For example, mountain climbers often report sensing another person that is with them at physically challenging times. This has been discovered to be a lack of communication between the hemispheres of the brain through the corpus-colossum due to a lack of oxygen. Consequently, our mind schema perceives the separation of the two hemispheres as an outside presence.

Also, 'spiritual' forces similar to the one you've mentioned can be repeated in lab situations by firing magnets set against our heads in certain places. For more information on this google 'God Helmet.'

I know these examples don't address your experience specifically, but they do show similar situations where the brain can trick itself into believing an internal miscommunication is an external force. The most important thing to remember, however, is that just because our scientific knowledge cannot directly explain something, does not mean that we should jump to supernatural conclusions.

[Rayaan]

Yeah, it may due to the power of suggestion as the posters above me argued.

I've never actually felt such a force or power that you're speaking of, but in my opinion, I don't think that this is a physical force coming from above or outside or anywhere else. You're saying that the power was "strong", "controlled," and that it's "out there" - as if it's some kind of a physical force like electromagnetic waves - but I don't think that this is what really happened. Rather, the power that you felt was more likely to be caused by your own emotional experience and your faith in God during that time (like a placebo effect perhaps). It was probably something that was felt by you because of your own belief in God.

I think you were very emotional when you were being prayed for. You even said that tears were streaming down your face and that you were trembling and shaking which obviously means that this was something emotional for you. So then, your feelings and thoughts affected your muscles and the rest of your body accordingly, thus diminishing bodily awareness, and then it made you think that a physical force was coming from above and acting on you. But still, I'm not sure if this is the right explanation and I could be wrong about this.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, of all possible explanations, you went with the "god of making people bow"? A god of pressure? My wife made my knees buckle last night, perhaps she has supernatural powers? I don't know Cox, I expect miracles to be more miraculous.

[Kayenneh]

And as for the contraction of muscles in your stomach, it just might be gas or maybe you were dehydrated or had low potassium levels and had muslce cramps of some sort.

[The Grand Nudger]

On a serious note, if you wish to believe that your argument from experience has any weight, you would have to reconcile the arguments from experience made by countless believer in countless faiths since time immemorial. If this type of experience can suggest god, why not a pagan god?
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...experience

[CoxRox]

Good points so far guys. I've been to countless 'church' meetings and they always involve praying for folk. I've had prayer many times and have never had prior expectations that a 'force' would bear down on me. Prayer meetings are pretty boring most of the time. No one 'suggested' any aspect of what I experienced. I wasn't feeling in any way 'emotional', but I hear what you're saying.

FaithNoMore, i'll certainly check out the 'God Helmet'. Sounds very interesting.

Rhythm- I have 'reconciled' this experience with 'other' faiths and what is interesting, is that all the aspects of my (Christian?) experience are found in the faiths liike Hinduism, Buddhism, Eastern mysticism. They all share this common experience of an 'energy' that effects your body (and spiritual awareness?). It's better known as Kundalini. Although it's existence is no doubt questioned, it's something that I think science may be able to test for. I'm researching it at the minute.

What I 'felt' was (seemed) very real and powerful and because it happened during prayer to a God, I don't think it's unreasonable that I attributed it to this God. People have had these 'power' experiences since man existed and their beliefs in gods have been reinforced through these experiences. I wonder if someone like Derren Brown has been able to duplicate anything like this?

Oh, and I didn't have any 'tummy' problems that day. The sensation I had in my sides was weird really. I don't recall ever having had my sides 'relax' and 'contract' in that manner.

Darwiniian, I'm sure what I experienced wasn't 'breaking the laws of nature' and there will be a rational explanation (and it's good to be back, thanks. ).

[The Grand Nudger]

We have looked for this energy. There is a reason that they call it "spiritual energy". It doesn't exist (objectively speaking). The unreasonable thing that you have done is to assume god in the first place. It is entirely unremarkable that all manner of inexplicable things happen from that point forward. The religious traditions that you mentioned seem to agree because you wish for them too. In actuality they disagree so much that people felt the need to segregate themselves along these lines.

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I think this thing you are trying to describe has a better known term than Kundalini, "Bullshit".