Incredulous Logic

[downbeatplumb]

Hmm, I posted a reply to this thread sometime last week and now it is gone...well if I find the time I guess I will have to redo it. I don't teach high school anymore, I now teach for the USDA.

You teach for these guys!

http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome

Colour me confused.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wasn't aware that the USDA gave seminars in YEC.

[Statler Waldorf]

The ironic thing is that everyone believes certain things without proof or evidence;

Tu quoque/appeal to hypocrisy,a common logical fallacy. (look it up)

No, you actually misused the appeal to hypocrisy. If I had used atheists' hypocrisy on the matter to try and prove P false, then I would have been guilty of this. However, I do not deny that believers believe things that they cannot logically prove to be true, but atheists do this too. It is beyond silly for atheists to object to the fact that believers do what atheists also do.

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I wasn't aware that the USDA gave seminars in YEC.

I don't teach origins sciences for the USDA (they don't have any courses in this field actually). It is all operational science based.

[downbeatplumb]

No, you actually misused the appeal to hypocrisy. If I had used atheists' hypocrisy on the matter to try and prove P false, then I would have been guilty of this. However, I do not deny that believers believe things that they cannot logically prove to be true, but atheists do this too. It is beyond silly for atheists to object to the fact that believers do what atheists also do.

I only believe things that there is enough evidence for.

Why else would I believe them?

Examples:

I think it is quite likely that there is life on other planets, but as there is no positive proof to support it, I do not believe that it is true,just quite likely.

I believe there is not an elephant in my kitchen because I have just come from the kitchen where there was no elephant, a usual sized elephant would not be able to fit through my doors, I could not see any elephants in the vicinity of my kitchen, this is not an area frequented by elephants and to the best of my knowledge an elephant has never previously been in my kitchen.

I believe that there is a sink in my kitchen because I have just washed something in the sink in my kitchen, I have not heard any sounds that indicate the removal of my sink, my sink has always been in the kitchen since its installaton for which I have a receipt.

[Statler Waldorf]

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I only believe things that there is enough evidence for.

Why else would I believe them?

Examples:

I think it is quite likely that there is life on other planets, but as there is no positive proof to support it, I do not believe that it is true,just quite likely.

I believe there is not an elephant in my kitchen because I have just come from the kitchen where there was no elephant, a usual sized elephant would not be able to fit through my doors, I could not see any elephants in the vicinity of my kitchen, this is not an area frequented by elephants and to the best of my knowledge an elephant has never previously been in my kitchen.

I believe that there is a sink in my kitchen because I have just washed something in the sink in my kitchen, I have not heard any sounds that indicate the removal of my sink, my sink has always been in the kitchen since its installaton for which I have a receipt.

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Do you believe that the natural laws we observe today will continue in the future? For example, that every time you drop a ball it will fall to the ground? If you do believe this to be true, what is your evidence for this?

[downbeatplumb]

Do you believe that the natural laws we observe today will continue in the future? For example, that every time you drop a ball it will fall to the ground? If you do believe this to be true, what is your evidence for this?

Because I have dropped balls many times before, because the reason that the ball drops is known and understood, because I have no reason to believe the contrary.

In short, if you are saying that the ball will not drop, (assuming we are stood on he earth). then you have to prove why not.

[Statler Waldorf]

Because I have dropped balls many times before, because the reason that the ball drops is known and understood, because I have no reason to believe the contrary.

In short, if you are saying that the ball will not drop, (assuming we are stood on he earth). then you have to prove why not.

I don't need to prove it will not happen, because I have a biblical basis for believing it will happen. However, in an atheistic universe you have no justification in this belief. You say, "Well balls have always fallen to the ground in the past." Yes they have, but if you are using this to justify believing they will do this in the future you are really only assuming the proof. This form of justification would only be valid if there was uniformity in nature which is the very thing you are trying to prove. So the very principle of induction, that all of science is based upon is something that cannot be proven to be true apart from scripture, and yet you believe it is true. Right?

[The Grand Nudger]

You have a biblical basis for belief in gravity...

Chapter and verse..please...lol.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of time (and heartache).

[Statler Waldorf]

You have a biblical basis for belief in gravity...

Chapter and verse..please...lol.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of time (and heartache).

Comprehension matters. I have a biblical justification for my belief in the uniformity of nature, which gives me a very foundation for conducting science. Genesis 8:22

"While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."

You have no basis for the principle of induction in an atheistic world, yet you live your life like you do.

[The Grand Nudger]

Don't see anything there about gravity Statler. Another verse maybe?