Objective Morality?

[Statler Waldorf]

I'm no expert either but I read that as "before Exodus was written". The events never happened but the book itself was real.

I see.

No, exodus didn't happen. Yes, they were polytheistic at a point in time just like everyone else around them. Expecting history to align itself to a fairy tale is expecting too much of fairy tales Stat.

Well I am looking forward to Ryft’s debate on the reality of Exodus, not sure how you could assert it didn’t happen with such confidence. As for the polytheism point, you know this how?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Well I am looking forward to Ryft’s debate on the reality of Exodus, not sure how you could assert it didn’t happen with such confidence. As for the polytheism point, you know this how?

That Moses and the Exodus are almost certainly myth has been widely accepted by Egyptologists for over a decade. However,the issue is not yet resolved.


It's virtually certain that what became monotheistic Judaism had thousands of polytheists within it up to at least the seventh century bce.Israel Finkelstein has found literally thousands of female deity figures in Israel dating to the seventh century.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


References

"The Bible Unearthed"

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts[1] is a 2001 book about the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed


"Did God Have A Wife?"

Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel, (Eerdmans, ISBN 0-8028-2852-3, 2005),[1] is a book by Syro-Palestinian archaeologist William G. Dever, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Archeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona. “Did God Have a Wife?” was intended as a popular work making available to the general public the evidence long known to archaeologists regarding ancient Israelite religion: namely that the Israelite God of antiquity (before 600 BC), Yahweh, had a consort, that her name was Asherah, and that she was part of the Canaanite pantheon.[quote]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_God_Have_a_Wife%3F

[The Grand Nudger]

Gee Stat I don't know, maybe because they made idols and left cultural heritage at every turn, unlike your exodus fairies. What exactly are you looking forward too? Does Ryft has in his possession evidence that is otherwise unknown to us? Unlikely.

"I want to start this debate by stating firmly that Goddidit™ as such all of my arguments are clearly logically consistent from this point on" ::masturbates::

[Angrboda]

It appears I am coming to this thread late, and that it has devolved into an apologetics battle which, typical of such, is nothing but tireless repetition of pathetic and stale claims, and mutual ruffling of feathers and chest thumping.

That said, I'd like to briefly address the OP with something of the Cliff notes version of my view. I believe in objective morality. In saying this, I am building on top of Dan Barker's conception that "morality is nothing more than a function that a healthy brain performs". As such, it is a mistake to look for a "thing" called morality, except in the broadest terms. It is a process or function which, at its most basic, is described as a conjoinment of the genetic/phenotypic aspects of our species with the phase space in which that type lives, breeds and evolves (read: "evolutionary context" or environment). There is a back-end to this view, which incorporates some speculations on the way the brain functions, based largely on Jeff Hawkins' biomimetic model of the neocortex as realized in his HTM model, and part in my own crude thoughts on a means of grounding Platonic Realism in terms of concrete, knowable mechanics; however, even if these notions weren't rather speculative, it would be pointless to try to explain them in this medium. So my teaser will have to suffice.

[downbeatplumb]

The thing I didnt get about exodus was that these were supposed to be people who had witnessed gods power directly and not had some third hand re telling of his mighty deeds.

yet as soon as moses left the room hey started worshipping other gods.

This is not consistant is it.

If youd seen god part a sea and make it rain fire youd leave it a bit before you said "you know what I dont think that gods real lets worship this golden calf"

And lets look at the caring way moses got them to worship this old testament god again, he slaughtered 3000 of them.

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, “You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.”

[The Grand Nudger]

That Moses and the Exodus are almost certainly myth has been widely accepted by Egyptologists for over a decade. However,the issue is not yet resolved.

Not yet resolved? So, lets see. A prophet raised by kings and reunited with his people talks to a god who gives him a plan, he makes an appeal with a staff that turns into a dragon, two groups of sorcerors battle it out, then the victorious group prepares to lead slews of people through the desert on the go word, which is a ghostly apparition executing the firstborn of their enemies, culminating in the same sorceror parting a sea and then collapsing it behind him so that it drowns the pharoahs army, leaving him free to travel to a mountain where a god presents himself, some nastiness ensues, few decades pass, "mana" falls from the sky, and then they set up some mythical jewish kingdom.

Jury's out......hardly.

They'd have a hard time convincing me that a small band of settlers wandered the desert (minus all the miraculous shit) without leaving evidence, since I've mentioned before, that we have evidence of much smaller groups of people traveling the same desert as part of the silk road. It's not as though no ones looked for this evidence either. The search for exodus was one of the most comprehensive, long running, well manned, and well funded arch. projects of all time. Absolutely no one has ever been in a better position to search for this stuff, and no one has a better reason to find this stuff, than the people who searched for it, ultimately being forced to state publicly that they found no such thing. What begin as a fanciful story was given serious consideration, despite the absurdity of the claim, an effort was made, nothing was found. Case closed.

Now if you want to argue that 5 people wandered the desert and passed the tale along that's fine by me (still not handling the silk road bit though are we?), thats not Exodus though is it, and I doubt that you'd be satisfied with such an assessment (speaking directly to Stat on this one).

[Godscreated]

Scripture also says that the gods were created.

We are not talking about "the gods", were are talking about Yahweh.

Actually Stat,Judaism was not monotheistic until after Exodus. The latest achaeology shows a female deity was still being widely worshipped (by THOUSANDS) in Israel as as late as the seventh century bce.

Actually, Judaism was not before the Exodus unless you consider about 100 people as a nation. God grew the nation of Israel in Egypt. I will agree that the Jewish nation worshiped other gods from time to time and did not need an archaeologist to tell me, it can be found in scriptures, so archaeology has shown what the Bible had already told us. God punished the nation of Israel for this idol worship.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Hey Y'hoshua, check out this sweet titty idol I made!"

"Bad juju Sh'mu'el..."

"No shit? Who told you that?"

"The guy holding the knife."

[Statler Waldorf]

Here is one for you all, is adultery still wrong if the person committing it doesn’t get caught? Christians would say yes.

[5thHorseman]

So would we.