What's so great about atheism anyway?

[Ace Otana]

Then there is absolutely no point having any kind of discussion with you on anysubject, because whetever the subject you will always be able to cop out on the basis of your nihilism or whatever fancy name you choose to give it.

No point in having a discussion with a troll either. You have huge misconceptions of atheism. Huge misconceptions.

[KichigaiNeko]

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But my dear we ARE an island... at least in our own minds. THIS and this alone make the "moral responsibility" of the atheistic among us a most difficult task.

I don't say it's easy. I do say it's necessary.

Have you ever HAD to access a fragile mind?? Because this battle is all 'In the mind' where the heart holds sway...yeah poetic non-sense I am aware but.... we ARE dealing with people...they are NOT logical nor do they want to be.

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Um ... er ... I think that is kinda what I was trying to say when I was going on (and on (and on(...))) elsewhere (in other threads) about wanting to form a kind of atheist church-like thingy-whatsname. Like ... er ... you gotta sort of join 'em to sort of beat 'em (or "woo" them would perhaps be a better word than "beat")

And there is the rub to Beat them at their own game is to BE as pontificating and sanctimonious and 'ALL knowing' as they are so you are NOT introducing a freedom from religion but another religion to take over from the abrahamic model. So who is better?? both have their flaws and to instigate 'Atheism' as the accepted model is of no service to your grandchildren just as much as theism is.

My OWN mind gets a bit fragile sometimes, btw. Logic is not my strong point, and I get confused quite a lot. But I'm pretty sure I'm right that leaving the world in the condition it is presently in is not the kindest thing to do for my grandchildren... So I feel kinda obliged to at least try...

Try ..oh most definitely YES
Beat the rest of the planet about YOUR belief?? Not in a unicorn's pink fit!!

On the subject of coffee by the way, I remember once when I was a kid of 16-ish or so, wandering around Bromley (that's on the edge of South London) one night I was accosted by some Jesus Freaks (er, I think they called themselves "Children of God" actually) and dragged off to their den "for coffee" where loads of other kids were rapping at each other (not "rapping" like rapping today, but like heavy talking. This was way back in the '60s) about the love of Jesus. Some twit kept asking me "Have you taken Jesus into your heart?" and I kept telling him I didn't have the foggiest notion what he was talking about - etc. Anyway, the point is, this "coffee" that I had been tempted there by was absolute utter filthy CRAP and I'd had a couple or five of pints (and nips too I think - I had a sort of recipe to get arseholed on, involved guinness, wine, bitter, and a nip in some order or another... wha'eva) so of course I quite happily told them so (that the coffee was crap I mean - not that I was totally sloshed - I guess they could sorta tell that probly). But anyway, I started going on about this crap coffee, like "if this Jesus fellah is such a fvcking brilliant teacher why doesn't he teach you lot to make a decent cup of coffee?" and so on. I remember someone saying something like "Well, it's free, so you can't complain" and of course I immediately started offering to pay them for a decent one ... and I wound some geezer up so much he took a flippin' swipe at me! Me a pacifist and wotnot (like one is at such a tender age). Ha ha ha - I floated outta there on the highest possible fvcking moral ground I could possibly imagine (at that age) and proudly displayed that bruise for the next week or so... proudly telling everyone I could how I'd got given it from a Jesus Freak! Tee hee!

Not much better than those you regale against?? tsk tsk

Ace has a point ...YOU do seem to be inconsistent in your thought patterns regarding atheism. Still being the high and moralistically mighty 16 year old??

hmm My dear there is nothing wrong with atheism per se. There is nothing wrong with those who have their belief in their 'sky-daddy' just so they DON'T shove it down the throats of our young ones is my issue. I have spent the best 28years of my life trying to educate my children on how to think for themselves, question EVERYTHING!! And not to be slaves to ANY political or theological mind set. I am reminded of a euphamism:
"Politics is the religion of the weak"

So my dear... your arguments may get a bit further as Summer Queen has sugested.. by being a bit more open to other people's oppinions and not so hardcore with your questions.

How far did you get at school??

[THWOTH]

[...] I think that is kinda what I was trying to say when I was going on (and on (and on(...))) elsewhere (in other threads) about wanting to form a kind of atheist church-like thingy-whatsname. Like ... er ... you gotta sort of join 'em to sort of beat 'em (or "woo" them would perhaps be a better word than "beat")....

Have you not come across Humanism as a kind of... erm... you know... secular type religious-substitute thingy? Ever thought about joining a Humanist group or society, or promoting rationalist, secular principles in some other active or positive way?

International Humanist and Ethical Union

[Ace Otana]

Don't think he's ever heard of them. Just keeps going back to atheism for action or solution as he put in a previous post. Definitely running in the wrong direction.
We need to put up some sign posts....

[KichigaiNeko]

So it would seem Ace and THWOTH.. 'rednose' does appear to want to be an activist "of some bizzare" flavour

[Godnose]

How far did you get at school??

Nowhere. Dropped out dead early and started chasing money.

However I have had a great time and my children have done well and their children seem dead bright - and they are all atheists.

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[...] I think that is kinda what I was trying to say when I was going on (and on (and on(...))) elsewhere (in other threads) about wanting to form a kind of atheist church-like thingy-whatsname. Like ... er ... you gotta sort of join 'em to sort of beat 'em (or "woo" them would perhaps be a better word than "beat")....

Have you not come across Humanism as a kind of... erm... you know... secular type religious-substitute thingy? Ever thought about joining a Humanist group or society, or promoting rationalist, secular principles in some other active or positive way?

International Humanist and Ethical Union

Yeah. The one's around hear are completely bonkers. They just sit around telling each other what books to read and giving talks on comparative religion.

Oh yeah, and they are completely dependent upon the Quakers (a religious group) for their premises, so you have to be careful what you say about there being no god and that.

[KichigaiNeko]

How far did you get at school??

Nowhere. Dropped out dead early and started chasing money.

However I have had a great time and my children have done well and their children seem dead bright - and they are all atheists.

So why the evangelism?? Your children and grandchildren are not going to thank you for not leaving them anything to do...

No..atheism most definitely does NOT need a 'church' the fact that there is no central figure is our strength. As has been demonstrated by Anonymous and Al-Qaeda.

Sign your Census forms as 'Atheist' by all means. Leave the "evangelism" to the fundies...they are better at it ya know.

So where is the ice cream?? I'm sure I ordered Ice-Cream with Chocolate syrup.

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Ya know what I cheerfully Need??

COFFEE!! and ice cream!!

[Godnose]

This is getting tedious. Think I'll fvck off now...

[THWOTH]

[...] I think that is kinda what I was trying to say when I was going on (and on (and on(...))) elsewhere (in other threads) about wanting to form a kind of atheist church-like thingy-whatsname. Like ... er ... you gotta sort of join 'em to sort of beat 'em (or "woo" them would perhaps be a better word than "beat")....

Have you not come across Humanism as a kind of... erm... you know... secular type religious-substitute thingy? Ever thought about joining a Humanist group or society, or promoting rationalist, secular principles in some other active or positive way?

International Humanist and Ethical Union

Yeah. The one's around hear are completely bonkers. They just sit around telling each other what books to read and giving talks on comparative religion.

Perhaps they need a dynamic go-getter to shake 'em up a bit? Perhaps that could even be you? In the UK we have the Sceptics In The Pub umbrella which is drawing in more and more people to discuss rational and secular issues - now there's an idea don't you think, reason and beer?

Oh yeah, and they are completely dependent upon the Quakers (a religious group) for their premises, so you have to be careful what you say about there being no god and that.

Well, that's kind of the Quakers and wholly to their credit don't you think? One should also remember that Quarkers are secularists as well so immediately there is some common ground.

[Napoléon]

This is getting tedious. Think I'll fvck off now...

FINALLY!