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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 3:31 pm
What Min said.
Increase the taxes for the rich by 110% of what it currently is and wathc how quick they get off their fat asses and start making local jobs. The way the system is now, why would a fat cat have to work? He gets govt contracts with no bids, pays hardly any taxes.. why should he actually take risks or hire new people when everything is handed to him on a silver plater?
Raise the taxes on the rich and watch them scatter..watch Fox news howl at the moon because their owners will now have to take bigger risks, and pay for it themselves..they will actually have to focus more on trying to make money, meaning they will need help. They will hire.
Taxes are the only pressure to create capital that the rich have. We poor have pressures out the ass to create capital, for fear of health and hunger. The rich, however, already have everything they need, so why should they do anymore than bare minimum? TAX THE FUCK OUT OF THEM and watch them rich get off their asses and back to creating jobs.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Manufacturing jobs have been stripped out of the equation, Pooper. This is now a service economy. Frankly, that's part of the problem. We'd don't make shit anymore.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 3:48 pm
(August 30, 2011 at 3:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Manufacturing jobs have been stripped out of the equation, Pooper. This is now a service economy. Frankly, that's part of the problem. We'd don't make shit anymore.
Making stuff is the best way out of a depression, it was making stuff for the UK that got you out of the last one before ww2.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Someones buying american made goods nowadays? I was unaware.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:02 pm
(August 30, 2011 at 3:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Someones buying american made goods nowadays? I was unaware.
Your burgers are nice. 
Anyhoo many moons ago when I was at school we had visit from the head of IBM uk who said the goal of the company was that 'eventually we would make machines that you could just tell what you want then the machine would work out how to make it and make it'.
I wondered at the time who they would sell these 'things' they made to.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2011 at 4:14 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 30, 2011 at 1:54 pm)paintpooper Wrote: Reasons for unemployment.
Outsourcing.
Mechanization of remedial tasks.
Money.
Just flat out not enough jobs?
Reasons for unemployment:
American labor pool is of a quality substantially inferior to the rate of pay they've become accustomed to demanding. Period.
Solutions:
Two are possible:
1. Get use to Chinese rate of pay and work ethics. The Chinese can do it, Americans had better learn to do it or else just admit the Chinese deserves to be able to eat more than we do.
2. Make the labor pool learn how to leverage such infrastructural and technological advantage that remains to us so that while demanding more pay than the Chinese, we also add proportionally more value, not just in our own eyes, but in the eyes of the wallets of those who might buy our wares.
In other words, quite looking for excuses to extract some kind of bandaid subsidy.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2011 at 4:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Machines making machines to build other machines.
No seriously, is it such a stretch to begin wondering whether we have advanced too far as a society for our current concepts of governance and wealth to be obsolete? We seem to have been drifting back and forth between two polar opposites the last 60 years and it should be pretty clear to anybody that something in the middle is going to have to be the way to move forward.
WTF chuck, the labor pool is of insufficient quality for minimum wage, what most of us work on? Bullshit. If all a minimum wage employee did was stand there breathing to remind the customer that there are real people behind the glass...mission accom, give the man his fucking pay. Blaming John Q Public for what has been unanimously described as a fuck-up of his betters is unacceptable (to me, of course).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Yes I understand the US is mainly a service economy now, but an all service economy is not sustainable. Neither is an all production economy as that insinuates continued growth and the continuance of people purchasing or using said service. Is there anything wrong in making things more sustainable... it may reduce/eliminate profits, but what do profits really mean when you look at the big picture.
This is more of a fundamental change on how our economy works. Can we not see the current set-up is not working and there will always be an underclass. Because to have all those riches you inevitable are taking it from the poor.
I agree increasing taxes is one way to temporarily fix and decrease the spectrum of wealth, but it is not a cure all. Because don't you think if they could "hire" more people to make more product or service that they would? If you need more product and the demand is their you would hire more. So actually yes I do see a correlation, more money in the hands of people that will spend to purchase product and service instead of hording it all with a certain class of people.
But how long can this current system last, 100 years? 50 years? Everything is based on energy, when energy becomes more expensive everything else becomes more expensive. I would say a way out of this mess to is find or create cheaper energy, then in turn everything becomes cheaper. But you if have an energy source that is sustainable for long periods of time, the supply is huge and demand is low so less profit. Also with finite energy sources you almost want people to consume more for profit because it will run out. How can these people need so much wealth, what are they accomplishing, are they making life better for anyone? What if some corporations ran on a non-profit basis, and the profits that, they did have, trickled back down to higher wages, and a cheaper product.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:17 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote: WTF chuck, the labor pool is of insufficient quality for minimum wage, what most of us work on? Bullshit. If all a minimum wage employee did was stand there breathing to remind the customer that there are real people behind the glass...mission accom, give the man his fucking pay. Blaming John Q Public for what has been unanimously described as a fuck-up of his betters is unacceptable (to me, of course).
The labor pool is of insufficient quality for minimum wage. A Chinese labor would happily be paid the American minimum wage and do a hell of a lot more than just stand there and breath.
So American minimum wage labor who just stand there and breath would be of truly embrassing inferiority compare to the Chinese labor who turn out Ipads for the same pay.
When a Chinese labor can turn out Ipads for minimum wage, an American labor can only be called of sufficient quality if he turns out something as or more valuable for the same amount.
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RE: Unemployment. Honest debate.
August 30, 2011 at 4:18 pm
There's a huge current of debate as to whether we should reorganize our understanding of wealth and value Popper. Sustainability is pretty much the central tenant of the debate.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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