Dear Atheist Forums

[ElDinero]

Well if I did, it wouldn't be misbehaving, now would it?

[Cinjin]

I think the light wrangling worked.This placed has returned to a friendlier, more tolerant place.

We still kick the shit outta trolls and crazy theists, and disagree regularly. The fact that this issue continues to vex some is laughable. No one here has been censored in any way shape or form. As if making the tinyest effort to show some general human hospitality and tolerance makes one a pussy. Ridiculous notion.

Honestly - has ANYONE here changed their opinions and views on the world since the OP? Nope. That was never it's intent. I personally don't think open aggressive hostility should be defended and even praised in any general discussion arena. Debate, disagreement, and even obliteration of one's soapbox should be the name of the game. If being a tad more tolerant is lame and hostility is now the new cool - than I don't belong here.




I will never apologize for making an effort to be a slightly better human being. Anger and hostility do have their necessary place, no offense, but I don't think that place is on a general discussion forum ... at least not the degree that we use to have it here.



IMO

[ElDinero]

Pussy.

[Shell B]

Ice your panties, Cin. If the following is in response to my posts, I am afraid you have misinterpreted me quite a bit.

I think the light wrangling worked.This placed has returned to a friendlier, more tolerant place.

I haven't seen an ounce of change. This shit came up when there was a slew of Poes and trolls, so people thought "OMG! This place is so fandangled mean!" What was really happening was that we were trying to give newbs the benefit of the doubt and the natives were getting restless, understandably.

We still kick the shit outta trolls and crazy theists, and disagree regularly.

And that pisses people off and gives a general appearance of hostility. That is because troll threads get mucho traffic.

As if making the tinyest effort to show some general human hospitality and tolerance makes one a pussy. Ridiculous notion.

Bah. The idea was never even suggested. Not by me, at any rate. Hospitality and tolerance are great. Pissing your pants when someone else doesn't abide by those norms is not. What irks me is people getting all bent out of shape. "Guys, play nicer!" If it isn't breaking the rules, I will not tell people how to behave, especially when they are calling a poe who came here to piss us off an asshole.

That was never it's intent. I personally don't think open aggressive hostility should be defended and even praised in any general discussion arena.

Who the fuck is being aggressive? Really. I'm sorry, but whenever this shit gets brought up, I think it goes waaaay out of proportion. The complaints against it make it sound like people are wandering around here going, "Christians should get bashed in the face with iron rods. Who's with me? You, you? High five! We're so cool."

Debate, disagreement, and even obliteration of one's soapbox should be the name of the game. If being a tad more tolerant is lame and hostility is now the new cool - than I don't belong here.

Cin, you're great here. Do not be ridiculous, buddy. No one said being more tolerant is lame. I am saying it is lame to expect everyone to behave the way the more tame people want them to. If someone jumped into a thread and just randomly said to a newb, "Fuck you, you cocksucker." I would dish out a warning for sure. However, if a person comes into a thread where a newb is telling them what they believe, that they are illogical unless they believe in god, that they are going to hell, and says, "Get fucked, asshole." I'm likely to look the other way. I'm not going to expect the members here to be tolerant of getting intentionally fucked with. This is a place for people to debate stuff. The founder(s) of this forum want religious people to be able to participate. It is a wonderful set up. However, it is not a place for Christians to come in here and bash atheists, make fun of them, troll them and fucking otherwise wreak havoc unchecked. Tolerance can only go so far.

I will never apologize for making an effort to be a slightly better human being. Anger and hostility do have their necessary place, no offense, but I don't think that place is on a general discussion forum ... at least not the degree that we use to have it here.

Then don't. I do not know where this "degree we used to have it here" came from. No offense to Summer, her post was lovely and well-intentioned, but it changed diddly squat. We simply do not have as many troll threads at the moment. Give it a little bit, the hostility will come back with the trolls and ebb again as they leave. I've been watching it happen for more than a year. We've had upheavals here that make this last bit of nonsense look like a walk in the park. We survived.

[5thHorseman]

I will continue with hostilities to poor arguments on religious delusions, or political stupidity that some here show. Stupid things said by trolls/godschild/ Statler deserve ridicule and mockery. Arguments put across by Fr0d0, Rayaan et al, will be treated with the respect they deserve. They are better people then the aforementioned. Sure we disagree, but they don't bring terrible arguments in this house. There is no godunnit. I don't feel a need to pander to idiots.

[Shell B]

I like to think that we are intelligent enough to insult them without resorting to vugarities or lowering ourselves to their level. Sometimes, though ...

Wouldn't that be lovely. Unfortunately, some of us, myself included, think of "vulgarities" as simple words. For example, I read "fuck you" as "I really do not like what you are saying or you, for that matter." Is there a difference? Not in my mind. Now, let's say someone says "Fuck you, you *racial slur*" the racial slur is not a word like shit that is really just a synonym for a less offensive word. The racial slur is, in an of itself and all synonyms, offensive to a slew of people. I would prefer language like that is not used and it is against the rules. Swearing is not, nor is it inherently hostile.

[reverendjeremiah]

Dear Atheist Forums

I just wanted to make sure this was clear and concise:

"WTF!?!?!!?!?!11!11ELEVENTYONE!"

Signed

Doctor Reverend Jeremiah Poindexter III

P.S. - I will be in Private Prayer meetings with many different women folk tonight, but I will be available first thing tommorrow morning.

P.P.S. - Praise Sweet Baby Jesus!

[Cinjin]

"Ice my panties" - that's funny. I am afraid it is you that has misinterpreted me quite a bit. I'm nowhere near a level of anxiety that I would need to per-verbally "ice my panties" (plus I'm more of a boxers guy anyway ).

I think what this really comes down to for you is not whether or not we should or should not "be nice", but your aversion to being told what to do ... or rather, your perception that you are being told what to do.

Summer or anyone else says, "hey guys, lets wrangle it in a bit, and make an attempt to respect each other," and you seem to interpret that as someone telling you, "stop swearing, stop thinking, stop being true to yourself and do as I told you and be nice to the imbeciles." She wasn't talking about just our treatment of trolls, but also the treatment of each other, which had gotten somewhat hostile on occasion. That is what I was referring to when I said this place had returned to a more pleasant atmosphere.

I think the real issue you have with this is not that summer was wrong, but rather that what you really want to say is, "I will not be told what to think say or do ... Fuck you!" --- even though you already know that she nor I would ever do that. (-tell you what to do that is)

Also, you'll notice that neither you nor I are being hostile and yet we are disagreeing and having a mild debate here. We can say shit, fuck, and damn-you and all the wonderful cuss words we enjoy and still remain anger free. This does not mean that one is never allowed to get angry or that hostility is not a useful tool. I was merely saying that it should never be used an opening defense against total imbeciles and certainly not against our own "brothers and sisters".

That being said, your point IS taken. You are defending your right to say "fuck you!" My point, was that no one was EVER trying to take that away and quite frankly, you know me ... I'm a guy who's going to jump right in there with you and say "fuck you dipshit!".

Meanwhile, I'm going to make an effort to curb unnecessary hostile behavior. Which is all we ever recommended.



I hope this clarifies my position on a matter I thought had long since been closed. Your position of "Fuck you Cinjin" has been noted ... and oddly enough is respected.

[Shell B]

"Ice my panties" - that's funny. I am afraid it is you that has misinterpreted me quite a bit. I'm nowhere near a level of anxiety that I would need to per-verbally "ice my panties" (plus I'm more of a boxers guy anyway ).

Hot.

I think what this really comes down to for you is not whether or not we should or should not "be nice", but your aversion to being told what to do ... or rather, your perception that you are being told what to do.

Actually, I it's my aversion to anyone else being told how to behave outside of the rules. I do not see myself as unnecessarily hostile. This is not a personal argument for me, but rather an abstract one.

Summer or anyone else says, "hey guys, lets wrangle it in a bit, and make an attempt to respect each other," and you seem to interpret that as someone telling you, "stop swearing, stop thinking, stop being true to yourself and do as I told you and be nice to the imbeciles."

No, I interpret it as, "Hey guys, behave the way I would ideally have you behave." No offense to anyone. I simply do not find posts that say, "This place is so hostile. Is it so hard for you guys to be nice?" appealing.

She wasn't talking about just our treatment of trolls, but also the treatment of each other, which had gotten somewhat hostile on occasion.

Yes, when people disagreed. As a debate forum, that is unavoidable. It should not be met with schoolmarmery.

That is what I was referring to when I said this place had returned to a more pleasant atmosphere.

I still fail to see this. I still see arguments that are perhaps a little out of hand on nearly a daily basis. Most times, they fizzle out on their own and people do not see them. When people happen to click on those threads more often than others, they see hostility as rampant. Unless someone reads every thread, they have no way of knowing what the trend is.

I think the real issue you have with this is not that summer was wrong, but rather that what you really want to say is, "I will not be told what to think say or do ... Fuck you!" --- even though you already know that she nor I would ever do that. (-tell you what to do that is)

This isn't directed at Summer. It is directed at people who oppose "negativity" in general. Again, I am already told what to do. There are rules here. I have no problem with abiding by them. I do have a (albeit slight) problem with people deciding what they want the tone of the forum to be. Even Adrian didn't try to change what he saw. He simply said, "When I do not like it, I will walk away."

Also, you'll notice that neither you nor I are being hostile and yet we are disagreeing and having a mild debate here. We can say shit, fuck, and damn-you and all the wonderful cuss words we enjoy and still remain anger free. This does not mean that one is never allowed to get angry or that hostility is not a useful tool. I was merely saying that it should never be used an opening defense against total imbeciles and certainly not against our own "brothers and sisters".

That's the thing. I do not see that . . . ever. I guess it is a matter of interpretation.

That being said, your point IS taken. You are defending your right to say "fuck you!"

No I'm not. I'm defending everyone here against what I see is a rising attitude police trend.

My point, was that no one was EVER trying to take that away and quite frankly, you know me ... I'm a guy who's going to jump right in there with you and say "fuck you dipshit!".

Again, I don't think anyone is trying to take away that right. I think people are trying to dictate the atmosphere of the forum by bitching about other people's attitudes. Again, no offense. I just do not agree. If the rules change to exclude negativity, I will conform. Until then, I do not care if people's attitudes do not suit other people's attitudes.

Meanwhile, I'm going to make an effort to curb unnecessary hostile behavior. Which is all we ever recommended.

And that is great . . . for you. I just do not see why it should be anything more than an individual's prerogative.

I hope this clarifies my position on a matter I thought had long since been closed. Your position of "Fuck you Cinjin" has been noted ... and oddly enough is respected.

Nah, it's more "Your opinion is retarded." I still love ya, man.

[Cinjin]

Meanwhile, I'm going to make an effort to curb unnecessary hostile behavior. Which is all we ever recommended. I hope this clarifies my position on a matter I thought had long since been closed. Your position of "Fuck you Cinjin" has been noted ... and oddly enough is respected.

Nah, it's more "Your opinion is retarded." I still love ya, man.

Fair enough. I won't continue to beat this thing to death

(A final thought though: Summerqueen's OP holds the number two spot for Most Kudos of All Time. People don't tend to kudos things they don't agree with. My opinion can't be THAT "retarded" )

luv ya babe.