Intelligence is a Curse

[Minimalist]

I'm still actively pursuing God, reading the Bible, practicing Christian standards, worshipping and praying to God.

That's cool. Just don't come here and expect not to catch a lot of shit about it.

[salty]

I think I may not be communicating this very well. You do not follow duetoronomy and believe that you are not required to, as you have been delivered from it. Good, because it's full of laws regarding the treatment of slaves, and who can be put to death for putting it "where it doesn't belong, or when it doesn't belong". What I am saying, is that the new testament isn't any better. It's more of the same, with the addition of thought crimes, and endless torture for finite transgressions (among other choice bits).

This is what I'm getting from this:
1. People with finite life spans are committing crimes that have eternal punishments.
2. How could finite decisions, by finite creatures, impact the eternal nature of a God? (especially a loving God)

Answer: God's eternal presence is overflowing with purity and perfection. Most of the finite decisions, the finite people are making are impure and imperfect. A being that is completely pure, completely perfect has no need to coexist with impure and imperfect creatures. It is only love that stops such a being from destroying all imperfection to make way for perfection.

This is what I'm trying to tell atheists:
1. Soon God will destroy all imperfection to make way for perfection.
2. God has created a way for finite creatures to repent and be in his presence.
3. Everyone will be given the chance to hear about God and choose.
4. Those who deny, defy, hate or purposely ignore God will get what they deserve based on how they have lived their lives on earth.
5. People have the free-will to live their lives however they see fit, with God or without God.

The NT is where Christians learn to become better Christians by imitating Christ's behavior on earth. It explains our deliverance from the laws of Deut & Leviticus and the supremacy of Christ over all evil, over all apostles and all prophets.

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I'm still actively pursuing God, reading the Bible, practicing Christian standards, worshipping and praying to God.

That's cool. Just don't come here and expect not to catch a lot of shit about it.

I know.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, again, you decide not to address my "cruel mirror" and instead offer up prophecy from a source that you cannot provide any justification for save faith.

Before long you'll be as good at this as any of the others. I've already given you my two cents on the NT, same shit, plus extra depravity. That you can actually tell me so much about utter destruction and then turn around like Janus and claim this to be a doctrine of love is unacceptable to me. There isn't a single shred of credibility in such a statement. The god you are describing is not a god, it's a demon. I'm capable of more compassion, and deeper love than this thing you've decided to worship (pretty sure you are too).

[searchingforanswers]

But God created the imperfection and has allowed it to exist for thousand of years? Why?

[salty]

Rhythm. What of Christianity do you find offensive?

Firstly, you didn't address the issue that the website you linked argues for genesis as an accurate account of material creation. Secondly, that you can even ask this makes me wonder if you've read any of my responses to your posts. Actually, I wonder if you've ready anyone's responses. Have we all been having a conversation with ourselves?

1. Please note the tab and topic and I will respond after I read it. That website has a wealth of information, I was over in the Dawkins section so I haven't peeked at some of the other parts.

2. I have read responses, many, many, many responses about how people feel. And some of them do blur together. Yet, as my opinion of the forum posters changes I am ever seeking to get to a deeper understanding of the most basic reason to deny God from person to person. I'm trying to get down to the core, a crisp sentence, like FaithNoMore "Jesus doesn't exist." I thought maybe you had a crisp tone like that too.

Here's my crisp sentence: Faith in Christ has changed my life.

3. There are a few people I did ignore for a while, that's mostly because they have angry ways of expressing themselves, for the most part I read just about all responses.

Please, continue to be patient with me.

[The Grand Nudger]

I have nothing if not time. This thread, post #25.

Here's a direct link to your website
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/model.html
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html

It's a "wealth" of something, but that something is not information. The people on this site reject the notion of YEC, they are OEC. No matter, both schools believe genesis to be an accurate account of material creation.

A great quote here (also from the site, emphasis mine).
"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience."- Saint Augustine

What a prick. Looks to me like the only people who have a severe mental block to knowledge are those of us that would rather see the earth burn than admit their fairy tales are just that.

[salty]

But God created the imperfection and has allowed it to exist for thousand of years? Why?

God created Lucifer, but evil is committed, it is not created. God is pure, evil cannot come from him, but beings that have the ability to choose between good and evil, can choose to commit evil.

God allows evil to run its course with limitations at times, he declares that someday he will give evil an overwhelming freedom and Christians will suffer greatly in those days. He does this because people must be given the chance to choose. If I tell you apples are good and oranges are evil, but only present you with an apple to choose, then what am I doing short of controlling you? I must give you the chance to choose apples or oranges and you must taste for yourself if I speak the truth.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not all christians believe in free will Salty. Why should we believe you over them?

[salty]

I have nothing if not time. This thread, post #25.

Here's a direct link to your website
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/model.html
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html

It's a "wealth" of something, but that something is not information. The people on this site reject the notion of YEC, they are OEC. No matter, both schools believe genesis to be an accurate account of material creation.

A great quote here (also from the site, emphasis mine).
"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience."- Saint Augustine

What a prick.

He seems to have some pretty good ideas matched up with Scripture. I can't pretend I understand everything he's saying, especially not the numbers (thisxthis to the power of this), but I do believe that creation involves other books of the Bible, not just Genesis. This isn't a regurgitation of what this guy is saying, this belief comes from the fact that Revelation isn't the only book that talks about the end of the world, Daniel, Ezekial and many of the prophets talk about the end as well. Also many of the books combined are where we get an accurate picture of Satan and the attributes of the Messiah. So I don't think Christians are limited to one book concerning creation. Does this response impact your question? Though I am not on your level of intelligence Rhythm I do try to answer any questions directed at me.

[Faith No More]

God allows evil to run its course with limitations at times...

This is the problem. Evil often influences the most innocent of us, children. God is capable of stopping it, but he passes the buck and blames humanity. The fact that he lets someone who is not responsible for evil be affected by it is cruel.

I know the Christian response to this is 'the big picture' argument, but seeing how god is omnipotent, he can get results any way he likes. So why use suffering of the individual to help the whole?