Apologetics...I'm a BIG Fan

[riverthought]

I agree that apologetics is the Christian theologian's halfhearted attempt to justify what he believes in. Modern attempts in this direction only weaken the theologian's faith. Christians should not believe in a Great Cosmic Wizard who is all-powerful and the greatest good. The God Christians believe in has those characteristics, but is first and foremost the God of Israel, who raised Jesus from the dead.

What I'm trying to say here is that the existence of God is the least of the Christian's worries. Just because if at the end of the day, some apologist manages to "prove the existence of god" doesn't mean that he's correct about anything. Our determination of the existence of God would be to undermine God's authority to do that Himself. The more troubling question is not "How do I know that God exists?" but "How is it possible that I can't be certain that an Omnipotent God exists? If such a God were to disclose Himself, how would it be possible that I don't believe Him?" This is the question that Christians need to wrestle with.

Apologetics seems to me like just another attempt at Christian Evangelism (or a means of trying to convert other people). Even if we take apologetics out of the picture, it probably won't mean the total deconstruction of the Christian Faith. Scientific inquiry works great in some parts of Christianity (here I assume scientific inquiry to mean the determination of origins of an observable consequence, which is helpful in biblical exegesis). When it is applied to something that isn't really Christocentric (like determining the existence of God), it goes against the very nature of Christianity. Apologists can have their own fun on the side, but in my opinion should not share an equal standing with particle physicists and Biblical scholars in the university.

[The Grand Nudger]

The god christians believe in does not have those characteristics, because it does not exist. The story christians tell themselves has a fictional character who is claimed to have such powers. This is the only place such powers exist....fairy tales.

There is no god of Israel, jesus was not raised from the dead, this is myth.

Because no such god has ever revealed himself, due in large part to the fact that this god does not exist. Question answered, you're welcome.

Scientific inquiry does not "work", or do any favors for christian myth (or any myth). Why you would imagine that it does is beyond me.

No genesis, no exodus, no prophecies, no messiah, no miracles, no apocalypse....no revealed word at all, in any part.....no christian god. Even as philosophy (disregarding any factual accuracy, it's completely and utterly morally bankrupt...it can't even be used as a competent indicator of how one should go about living their life.) It's a relic of human thought and should be treated as such.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

The god christians believe in does not have those characteristics, because it does not exist. The story christians tell themselves has a fictional character who is claimed to have such powers. This is the only place such powers exist....fairy tales.

There is no god of Israel, jesus was not raised from the dead, this is myth.

Because no such god has ever revealed himself, due in large part to the fact that this god does not exist. Question answered, you're welcome.

Positive claims attract the burden of proof. Where's yours?

[The Grand Nudger]

Directly below the part you quoted.

-Radio Jerevan receives a question from a listener. "Is it true that cars are being given away in Red Square in Moscow."

That is correct, except for a few small errors. First, it isn't Moscow, but Leningrad. Second, it isn't Red Square, but the banks of the river Neva. Third, it isn't cars but bicycles. Fourth, they're not given away, but stolen.

I've never seen a shorter or more amusing parody of the entirety of the Bible (as it relates to factual reality) than the joke above. All the more satisfying as this was in no way intended.

[LunchBox]

I apologize in advance if this doesn't come out coherently. I drink maybe one or two nights a month, and that night is tonight.

Pure reason is useful to explore thought experiments where empirical inquiry is (currently) of limited use. Yet, it's usefulness is limited - and if reason leads you to conclusions that can't pass the giggle test, then you shouldn't take your conclusions too seriously without something concrete to back them up. At that point, labeling them as "truth" is... overly ambitious.

I'm now being told (by a budding young apologist-regurgitor <I'm going to copyright that word>) that Hawking is open to scrutiny for stepping into the philosophical realm by saying [G]od is not necessary for the universe to be. And yet philosophy is based on reason. So for some reason, Hawking is not allowed to employ his life's work into his reasoning into philosophical issues. My fucking brain hurts from dealing with this lunacy.

[LunchBox]

"Other students I met with at Princeton were enrolled in a class taught by the New Testament critic Elaine Pagels which they nicknamed the “Faithbusters Class” because of its destructive effect on the faith of many Christian students. They had no way of knowing how far out of mainstream scholarship Prof. Pagels’ views on the Gnostic gospels are. It was a privilege to share with them grounds for t...he credibility of the New Testament witness to Jesus.

Their experience is not unusual. In high school and college Christian teenagers are intellectually assaulted with every manner of non-Christian worldview coupled with an overwhelming relativism. If parents are not intellectually engaged with their faith and do not have sound arguments for Christian theism and good answers to their children’s questions, then we are in real danger of losing our youth. It’s no longer enough to teach our children simply Bible stories; they need doctrine and apologetics. It’s hard to understand how people today can risk parenthood without having studied apologetics.

Unfortunately, our churches have also largely dropped the ball in this area. It’s insufficient for youth groups and Sunday school classes to focus on entertainment and simpering devotional thoughts. We’ve got to train our kids for war. We dare not send them out to public high school and university armed with rubber swords and plastic armor. The time for playing games is past."

~ William Lane Craig

This is disturbing.

[genkaus]

"Other students I met with at Princeton were enrolled in a class taught by the New Testament critic Elaine Pagels which they nicknamed the “Faithbusters Class” because of its destructive effect on the faith of many Christian students. They had no way of knowing how far out of mainstream scholarship Prof. Pagels’ views on the Gnostic gospels are. It was a privilege to share with them grounds for t...he credibility of the New Testament witness to Jesus.

Their experience is not unusual. In high school and college Christian teenagers are intellectually assaulted with every manner of non-Christian worldview coupled with an overwhelming relativism. If parents are not intellectually engaged with their faith and do not have sound arguments for Christian theism and good answers to their children’s questions, then we are in real danger of losing our youth. It’s no longer enough to teach our children simply Bible stories; they need doctrine and apologetics. It’s hard to understand how people today can risk parenthood without having studied apologetics.

Unfortunately, our churches have also largely dropped the ball in this area. It’s insufficient for youth groups and Sunday school classes to focus on entertainment and simpering devotional thoughts. We’ve got to train our kids for war. We dare not send them out to public high school and university armed with rubber swords and plastic armor. The time for playing games is past."

~ William Lane Craig

This is disturbing.

What Will doesn't realize is that there are no sound argument or good answers. Therefore, any attempt at rational discourse would result in them losing religion fast.

[Minimalist]

Craig is a shithead.

Of course, with all the shitheads who follow him he is a rich shithead which is probably all he really requires.

[LunchBox]

Reading that, I kept imagining a military uniform with a red arm band, white circle, and the swastika straightened up to resemble a cross...maybe that's just me.

[Aegrus]

I wonder why such a peaceful religion would say that they should train for war?

Yes, the quote is highly disturbing for its thinly veiled threat of escalated violence and forced indoctrination.