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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 12:43 am
(September 28, 2011 at 12:00 am)popeyespappy Wrote: There is an interesting article here that discusses some of issues. It talks about the tools, method of travel and even DNA evidence. It’s several years old though so some of what is in here may not be current.
That was a good show, Pap. What is important is that these were not the Goths undertaking a migration to escape the Huns. What is being suggested is not a "journey" per se but rather a marine hunting culture picking its way along the pack ice with no sense of where they were going.
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 12:44 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 12:45 am by popeyespappy.)
(September 28, 2011 at 12:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: But it is the idea of boats that really intrigues me.
You read the article I linked? If not it's an interview with the principals.
Edit: Apparently I was typing while you were posting….
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 12:48 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 1:02 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Wasn't there some research into that though, to the effect that conditions would not have been favorable for that sort of migration at that time?
http://eprints.ulster.ac.uk/202/
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 12:56 am
(September 28, 2011 at 12:44 am)popeyespappy Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 12:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: But it is the idea of boats that really intrigues me.
You read the article I linked? If not it's an interview with the principals.
Edit: Apparently I was typing while you were posting….
That happens a lot.
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 12:57 am
It was the last glacial maximum. Conditions weren’t favorable for anything anywhere above the subtropics.
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 1:05 am
(September 28, 2011 at 12:48 am)Rhythm Wrote: Wasn't there some research into that though, to the effect that conditions would not have been favorable for that sort of migration at that time?
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3721/J080527
But this study talks about a 'migration' which is not what Stanford has envisioned. A small group of hunters working their way along the edge of the ice sheet during the Last Glacial Maximum, hunting sea mammals and hanging out on the ice floes. They would have been able to support themselves from the sea with one exception. When their stone tools wore out they would have needed to find a replacement source.
But it all hinges on the boats.
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 1:09 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 1:15 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Proposing skin boats I assume? Gonna be hard to find that kind of evidence. Any links or papers on traditional boats of the eastern seaboard? Could reference the earliest known designs against those of the proposed parent culture.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 1:13 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 1:15 am by Minimalist.)
Damn near impossible. Organic materials in a moist environment simply do not last.
However, we know that ancient humans got to Australia and they did not walk there. Assuming that we can dismiss the possibility that they flew there that really only leaves one possibility.
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 1:19 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 1:31 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, not suggesting that we wait until we find two hulls that fit inside each other, perfectly preserved. Simply that one would assume that this culture would continue building boats in the manner that got them across the N. Atlantic. Could be similarities in design or materials if we had any examples at all. Points alone, unconvincing, points and boats, getting there, know what I mean? We're well beyond the range of where we find boats though aren't we. It would be conjecture, but one I'd be more comfortable with if similarities between the earliest known boats between the two cultures existed (even if the earliest known boats came a fair bit later). Oldest boat we have is what 7-10k years old? I don't think that it's likely that it is a prototype, so, I'm willing to go farther back..lol. We'd likely be talking dugouts though here wouldn't we, not skin boats? What do we find in the way of specialized tools for making a dugout (because those would be likely to survive)?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 25,000 year old human foot prints found in Mexico
September 28, 2011 at 1:34 am
(September 28, 2011 at 1:13 am)Minimalist Wrote: Damn near impossible. Organic materials in a moist environment simply do not last.
However, we know that ancient humans got to Australia and they did not walk there. Assuming that we can dismiss the possibility that they flew there that really only leaves one possibility.
The distance between Timor and the Northern Coast of Australia was only 150km about 50,000 years ago when it was likely the first Aboriginals arrived.
I personally believe that people managed to get to the Americas before the Clovis by sailing along the coast of what is now Alaska and British Columbia which at times even at the height of the Ice Age would have had ice free refuges.
An earlier arrival of humans in the Americas would account for the "australoid" features in human remains found in Brazil. Such features say 30,000 to 20,000 years ago were part of the North and East Asian populations. However those features have disappeared in those populations since then.
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