Pyramid of Capitalism

[kılıç_mehmet]

What are you going to do without the government?
If you want to get off urban environments, generate your own electricity, purify your own water, and be your own police and army, be my guest.
Go and live as such.

Same as I do right now.

And why the hell would I need to leave a city to do what I like?

Because you probably won't have any running water, electricity, and adequate protection against people who are out for your blood/money.

[Violet]

Because you probably won't have any running water, electricity, and adequate protection against people who are out for your blood/money.

Only I will ensure I posses the first two things, and if people want to kill me then nothing's stopping them trying. Similarly, nothing is stopping me stabbing them with a running chainsaw.

[reverendjeremiah]

Similarly, nothing is stopping me stabbing them with a running chainsaw.

FUCK YEAH!!!

And just wait till you see how crabby Lilly gets when she gets her monthly friend.

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What are you going to do without the government?
If you want to get off urban environments, generate your own electricity, purify your own water, and be your own police and army, be my guest.
Go and live as such.

Well, I will do EXACTLY what I am doing now. Except when I smoke my occasional joint I can do it in public without worrying about being thrown in jail. You would do the same thing you have always done with or without a government as well.

Hmm, well that would be because Government does not equate to ANYTHING you just equated it to.

Government does not equal city OR country environments. Government dos not equal a power company. Government does not equal purifying your water...and police and armies can exist with or without a government.

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And the minute your syndicate incorporates people into the equation it will collapse in a bickering, backstabbing, selfserving, grandstanding pile of pettiness.

Yes. Because everytime I have mentioned a syndicate, I always mentioned how perfect it was, and how everyone would come together and work together and never bicker. [/sarcasm]

We also know how so well all the government models of the past has done in preventing that list you just mentioned. People will do what you listed regardless of wether a government exists or not...

...its called being an individual.

[Violet]

And just wait till you see how crabby Lilly gets when she gets her monthly friend.

Transwomen don't get periods, dear But if current plans go true: I'll be dealing with 4-5 women having a period at the same time every month in my future. How fun

[kılıç_mehmet]

Because you probably won't have any running water, electricity, and adequate protection against people who are out for your blood/money.

Only I will ensure I posses the first two things, and if people want to kill me then nothing's stopping them trying. Similarly, nothing is stopping me stabbing them with a running chainsaw.

There is no order, no law. You propose that we go back to the stone age with modern technology.

Well, I will do EXACTLY what I am doing now. Except when I smoke my occasional joint I can do it in public without worrying about being thrown in jail. You would do the same thing you have always done with or without a government as well.

Hmm, well that would be because Government does not equate to ANYTHING you just equated it to.

Government does not equal city OR country environments. Government dos not equal a power company. Government does not equal purifying your water...and police and armies can exist with or without a government.

Police and armies can exist without governments?
What are you going to have? Militias? The police protects everyone. You, and the guy next door. But what if the guy in the next door hates, say, people who hate ice-cream and founds a militia that is made up from people who hate ice-cream, and barres a portion of the neighborhood or begins to persecute, kill or torture ice-cream eaters, who are you going to turn to?
And it'll be the same for armies, fragmented, and seperate. You need to have a solid authority for things to work.
Besides, all companies and assorted things now run on the lines of the law.
Like if I knew that the police wouldn't take me in, what really stops me from having my own gang enter a company building and seizing all the assets inside?
Bodyguards? What if they try the same? It's what you want to call it, anarchy. IT's fucking anarchy everywhere. You cannot expect things to run on their own.

[Violet]

There is no order, no law. You propose that we go back to the stone age with modern technology.

On the contrary... there is order and law to be found even in the stone age. Why should a community be lawless simply because it is small?

I propose that if you don't wrong me: I won't stab you in the gut with a filed down crowbar.

Police and armies can exist without governments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary

What are you going to have? Militias? The police protects everyone. You, and the guy next door. But what if the guy in the next door hates, say, people who hate ice-cream and founds a militia that is made up from people who hate ice-cream, and barres a portion of the neighborhood or begins to persecute, kill or torture ice-cream eaters, who are you going to turn to?

I won't have militias. If some people wish to learn to fight: who am I to stop them? But the last thing I'd do is mandate their organization.

In my experience: the police endanger everyone and especially minorities. If someone manages to unite the people and attempt to kill ice cream eaters: good for them. I am still capable of combat and I will turn to nobody but myself.

And it'll be the same for armies, fragmented, and seperate. You need to have a solid authority for things to work.

Authority doesn't have to be a government. It can be simply a talented leader (as history has shown us countless times, particularly the famous Julius Caesar, who defected from the Roman Republic and turned it into an Empire)

Besides, all companies and assorted things now run on the lines of the law.

Which, if you haven't noticed, they attempt to break wherever they can get away with it. Get rid of your military and they'll walk all over you. With a military they first have to buy it out from under the government

Like if I knew that the police wouldn't take me in, what really stops me from having my own gang enter a company building and seizing all the assets inside?

The armed people of that building, the social denial of everything about you and your little gang (including the refusal to sell you anything), exile with you and your little friends by the masses, locks on assets, fellow mercs fighting you either for money or for prestige or just because they don't like your face, etc.

Bodyguards? What if they try the same? It's what you want to call it, anarchy. IT's fucking anarchy everywhere. You cannot expect things to run on their own.

If your bodyguards betray you, you have bigger problems than anarchy. Not like they have anything to steal in a syndicate... it's the anarcho-capitalists that might have to worry about such things

[kılıç_mehmet]

On the contrary... there is order and law to be found even in the stone age. Why should a community be lawless simply because it is small?

I propose that if you don't wrong me: I won't stab you in the gut with a filed down crowbar.

The thing is, it ain't small, darlin'.
Like I won't probably stab you simply because I can, but I probably won't have to respect your property rights if there are no law and no one to enforce it.
And we will probably clash, ultimately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary

And how do you expect those mercenaries to stay loyal to you?
What if the opposing side offers more money?

I won't have militias. If some people wish to learn to fight: who am I to stop them? But the last thing I'd do is mandate their organization.

In my experience: the police endanger everyone and especially minorities. If someone manages to unite the people and attempt to kill ice cream eaters: good for them. I am still capable of combat and I will turn to nobody but myself.

Well, I hope you have enough fightan' juice in you or some masterwork bastard swords if you want to survive in such a post-apocalyptic world.

Authority doesn't have to be a government. It can be simply a talented leader (as history has shown us countless times, particularly the famous Julius Caesar, who defected from the Roman Republic and turned it into an Empire)

And well, Rome had a government. Nearly, if not all human civilisations had some sort of government to date.
You think that Rome was based on anarchy?

Which, if you haven't noticed, they attempt to break wherever they can get away with it. Get rid of your military and they'll walk all over you. With a military they first have to buy it out from under the government

Well, this still is no reason to abolish anything.

The armed people of that building, the social denial of everything about you and your little gang (including the refusal to sell you anything), exile with you and your little friends by the masses, locks on assets, fellow mercs fighting you either for money or for prestige or just because they don't like your face, etc.

It's just like I envisioned the perfect society to be.
Fallout 2.

If your bodyguards betray you, you have bigger problems than anarchy. Not like they have anything to steal in a syndicate... it's the anarcho-capitalists that might have to worry about such things

I don't think they have to, since they won't ever realize such aspirations.

[Violet]

The thing is, it ain't small, darlin'.

Stone age communities were quite small.

Like I won't probably stab you simply because I can, but I probably won't have to respect your property rights if there are no law and no one to enforce it.

And no property rights, dear. Without law: 'right's do not exist. Without force: ownership cannot be enforced

But if you cross me badly enough I will stab you

And how do you expect those mercenaries to stay loyal to you?

I wasn't going to use them... mercs are loyal only to themselves. They are simply an example of an army without a government.

What if the opposing side offers more money?

Then you better hope the mercs hate their guts. There are reasons I would never use an army, and mercs exaggerate most of what I hate in armies

Well, I hope you have enough fightan' juice in you or some masterwork bastard swords if you want to survive in such a post-apocalyptic world.

Explosives, they are useful. Poisons too, far more subtle. Swords, guns, and hand-hand are last resorts.

And who said this was post-apocalyptic? 0.o Certainly not I.

And well, Rome had a government. Nearly, if not all human civilisations had some sort of government to date.
You think that Rome was based on anarchy?

It did have one. Then its government crumbled and it didn't.
Then it had a different one. Which eventually crumbled and it didn't.
It was anarchy during each of the 'it didn'ts'

I'm responding to your trollishishness because it amuses me, but can you please try harder? That response was so off the mark to mine that it would make one wonder if you read it at all.

Well, this still is no reason to abolish anything.

Not to you, perhaps... but to me? Oh yes.

It's just like I envisioned the perfect society to be.
Fallout 2.

'Perfect societies' is nonsensical tripe. Fallout 3 was superior.

I don't think they have to, since they won't ever realize such aspirations.

You work for anarcho-capitalists.

*blink*

[kılıç_mehmet]

Stone age communities were quite small.

And today's communities are not.

And no property rights, dear. Without law: 'right's do not exist. Without force: ownership cannot be enforced

But if you cross me badly enough I will stab you

This is why I do not support your little fantasy.

I wasn't going to use them... mercs are loyal only to themselves. They are simply an example of an army without a government.

A loose formation of thugs, you mean.

Then you better hope the mercs hate their guts. There are reasons I would never use an army, and mercs exaggerate most of what I hate in armies

Well, how well would you fare without an army against a united people with a purpose and discipline?

Explosives, they are useful. Poisons too, far more subtle. Swords, guns, and hand-hand are last resorts.

And who said this was post-apocalyptic? 0.o Certainly not I.

It most certainly sounds too post-apocalyptic.

It did have one. Then its government crumbled and it didn't.
Then it had a different one. Which eventually crumbled and it didn't.
It was anarchy during each of the 'it didn'ts'

It's government did not "crumble". It simply got replaced by another.
There always was some sort of order and a governing body.

Not to you, perhaps... but to me? Oh yes.

It certainly doesn't matter, as you do not have any power. Although I wouldn't even care if you'd do it in America. As a matter of fact, it'd please me more than anything.

'Perfect societies' is nonsensical tripe. Fallout 3 was superior.

Enjoying oblivion with guns, are we?

You work for anarcho-capitalists.

I work for an ideal alone.
And yours is not mine.

[Violet]

Trying to give a shit that today's communities are not small.

Failure: shit not given.

You don't support anarchy because you're weak? How... Typical.

All that armies are is a group of thugs. If that bothers you then that's great. If it doesn't then why mention it? I dont like mercs. Others can use them, but if they think about attacking a place I live in: they will meet pain there.

As for how well I would fare: quite. Did I mention that you miss less with explosives the more of them there are? and that poisons are easier to spread into supplies the more of them there are?

It's not post-apocalypse.

Afraid you don't understand how tetchy coups are at first. The people are almost always split. A nation without its people's support is not a nation at all

I have the power of being unconcerned with collateral, following only my own will, and a capacity to adapt and make the most of what I've got every step of the way. Those aren't light strengths... whether you respect me or not is irrelevant to my ability to gut you. May all governments die of a thousand paper cuts and may all of those who believe their people to be weak continue to do so. Governments should be afraid of their people

Oblivion is kickass. Fallout three is kickass with guns. Of course.

If you work for an ideal: how do you make money?