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Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 16, 2012 at 6:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2012 at 6:59 pm by Categories+Sheaves.)
(August 14, 2012 at 5:55 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well it doesn't imply a necessary being exists either if you don't take the premise a necessary being is possible. But given people's beliefs, then they should by this logic believe in multiple necessary beings.
If a Creator is logically possible, then different types of a Creator seem to be logically possible or at least seem that way. So if a person accepts a Christian God is possible as a necessary being, then he can accept the Hindu Brahman as a possible necessary being.
And due to this, it would mean all such Creators have to exist per this person's belief.... Well, there's more than one way to cut into that ambiguity...
E.G. Maybe God XOR Odin XOR Princess Celestia XOR... (long list of alternatives)... caused all contingent things to exist and must necessarily exist. (One of these guys necessarily exists, but we don't necessarily know who)
If we have multiple scenarios for the creation of the world (God made the known universe XOR Odin made the known universe...) then the creator-in-question may only exist contingently, (which creation scenario did we come from? iono...) in which case we have to look for another dude to be the cause of all contingent things...
Alternatively, the "possibly necessary -> necessary" proof doesn't seem to follow if you omit the 'necessity of possibility' axiom of modal logic (which the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy seems to present as desirable but not necessary  ) so there might be something for you over there too.
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 16, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Something necessary is necessary and therefore is necessary.
nb=necessary being
u=universe
ot=otiose being
pe=possibility of Earth's existence (possible Earth)
(+nb)=/=(+ot)
(-nb)=/=(+pe)
therefore
(+nb)(-ot)=(+pe)+(+u)
(-ot) would be the result if your beliefs did not imply that there is a necessary being (there would be no being, thusly the being would be otiose or unnecessary)
Thus you can have a universe without (+ot)
However
(-nb)(+/-ot)=(-pe)+(-u)
You cannot have (+pe)*(+u) without (+nb)
I love math.
You can't ignore the people who disagree and pretend it makes you right.
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Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 16, 2012 at 9:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2012 at 9:18 pm by Categories+Sheaves.)
(August 16, 2012 at 8:58 pm)FemmeRealism Wrote: Thus you can have a universe without (+ot)
However
(-nb)(+/-ot)=(-pe)+(-u)
You cannot have (+pe)*(+u) without (+nb) Buh. Run that by me one more time? And you're using "+" to represent 'or'/union in this probability-scheme, right? (because if that's not the case I'm really lost) Quote:I love math.
Yay!
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 16, 2012 at 9:26 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2012 at 9:47 pm by FemmeRealism.)
+ means that it is present, or (+nb)=(+u) would be a necessary being in an existing universe.
- means that it is not present, or (-nb)=(-u) no necessary being=no universe.
(-nb)(+/-ot)=(-pe)+(-u)
(-nb) is no necessary being times (+/-ot) an undertermined otiose being (it's either there or it's not, it doesn't matter because it's not necessary) = (-pe) no possible earth + (-u) no universe.
You cannot have (+pe)*(+u) without (+nb)
There is no (+pe) possible earth or [times] (+u) universe without a necessary being, as the being (or force, as it could be put) is necessary.
Sorry, I made that kind of hard. I was on an algebra high.
"Times'' is my preferred way of saying "including" or "with."
You can't ignore the people who disagree and pretend it makes you right.
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 16, 2012 at 11:32 pm
I guess that works
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 17, 2012 at 6:24 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2012 at 6:26 am by CliveStaples.)
(August 14, 2012 at 5:16 pm)Shell B Wrote: The bottom line is that the questions posed by your test do not imply anything. They are insufficient for sussing out enough of a person's belief system. The answers can't even begin to imply anything. That is the basis of the problem. Who cares about this other hoopla, when the very foundation of your argument is based on a really shitty quiz?
Well, nobody ever said that the questions imply anything. The question is whether the responses imply anything.
There are posted, logical arguments that deduce certain conclusions from a certain subset of responses. Sure, those conclusions might not be anything like "The Christian God must therefore exist" or "The Christian God must therefore be plausible" or "The Christian God must therefore not exist", or anything so specific.
Perhaps the only conclusion that can be reached (and only if a certain set of responses are given) is something as weak as "the existence of a Necessary Being is plausible". But that's not nothing.
(August 16, 2012 at 11:32 pm)Categories+Sheaves Wrote: I guess that works
Really? Because I still don't understand what the multiplication is supposed to mean. Or equality--is it logical equivalence?
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 17, 2012 at 11:07 am
When something is multiplied- (+nb)(+/-ot)=(+pe)(+u) It is included with the other factor-(+pe)(+u)-a possible Earth AND an existing universe.
Multiplication and addition are relatively equal here.
Equality is the result, sum, product, aftermath, etc.
(+nb)(+/-ot)=(+pe)(+u)
A necassary being including (or not) an otiose being result in a possible Earth and existing universe.
You can't ignore the people who disagree and pretend it makes you right.
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 17, 2012 at 12:22 pm
I think this subject, being more on the realm of philosophy, lacks the precision and rigor needed to be formally described by algebra like you are trying to do Femme.
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 17, 2012 at 12:50 pm
If the questions are that bad, how can the answers imply anything? You can't actually think that this is a legit quiz.
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RE: Do your beliefs imply a Necessary being exists?
August 17, 2012 at 1:40 pm
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2012 at 1:41 pm by FemmeRealism.)
(August 17, 2012 at 12:22 pm)LastPoet Wrote: I think this subject, being more on the realm of philosophy, lacks the precision and rigor needed to be formally described by algebra like you are trying to do Femme.
![[Image: 7803017660_02415a67be.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=farm9.staticflickr.com%2F8439%2F7803017660_02415a67be.jpg)
...but math has never failed me... 
You can't ignore the people who disagree and pretend it makes you right.
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