(July 29, 2015 at 1:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: And again I ask if atheism is true and there is no ultimate meaning except for what each person finds for themselves, how is sharing their beliefs "harming others"?  Harming in what way?  Could that not be flipped around in you proselytizing you belief that there is no God on me, "harming me"?  Now for sake of argument, let's forget about the radical bible thumpers yelling from the street corner, because I would be right next to you yelling at those morons.  But in normal everyday conversation if you meet someone that says they are a Christian do you feel it necessary to engage them on that point?  Or do you reserve the engaging only if they try to talk to you about believing what they believe?

You state that Christians are believing something false but do you know that with 100% certainty?  I am a Christian and I keep that to myself but if asked my beliefs I will not deny them.  If we met in real life, would you have an issue with me solely on my belief (because as you state I believe in something untrue and am a potential danger to others) or would we be cool (assuming personalities aren't conflicting) unless I start telling you to believe what I do?

I have many atheist friends.  I even have hindu and muslim friends.  I have respect for their own views, we have had discussions on differing viewpoints, but I don't feel any are trying to persuade me to their belief only giving their own reasons for their belief.  That's what I try to do here.  I defend my position on why I believe what I do, but that it is no way trying to persuade you to my side.

The problem isn't so much the belief sharing (though that is annoying). It's more the bigotry, the power grabbing, the persecution complex, the defense and perpetration of horrendous atrocities by both Gaud and Man, the occasional racism, the rampant sexism, the infestation and protection of sexual abusers, the double standard for religious freedoms (especially pertaining to total non-believers), the encroachment on the rights of others, the undeserved tax exempt status, the wars, the ignorance of climate and other environmental change, the ignorance of science in general, the resistance to scientific and social progress, the inability to admit wrongdoing...need I go on?

(July 29, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(July 29, 2015 at 1:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: And again I ask if atheism is true and there is no ultimate meaning except for what each person finds for themselves, how is sharing their beliefs "harming others"?  Harming in what way?  Could that not be flipped around in you proselytizing you belief that there is no God on me, "harming me"?  Now for sake of argument, let's forget about the radical bible thumpers yelling from the street corner, because I would be right next to you yelling at those morons.  But in normal everyday conversation if you meet someone that says they are a Christian do you feel it necessary to engage them on that point?  Or do you reserve the engaging only if they try to talk to you about believing what they believe?

You state that Christians are believing something false but do you know that with 100% certainty?  I am a Christian and I keep that to myself but if asked my beliefs I will not deny them.  If we met in real life, would you have an issue with me solely on my belief (because as you state I believe in something untrue and am a potential danger to others) or would we be cool (assuming personalities aren't conflicting) unless I start telling you to believe what I do?

I have many atheist friends.  I even have hindu and muslim friends.  I have respect for their own views, we have had discussions on differing viewpoints, but I don't feel any are trying to persuade me to their belief only giving their own reasons for their belief.  That's what I try to do here.  I defend my position on why I believe what I do, but that it is no way trying to persuade you to my side.

The problem isn't so much the belief sharing (though that is annoying). It's more the bigotry, the power grabbing, the persecution complex, the defense and perpetration of horrendous atrocities by both Gaud and Man, the occasional racism, the rampant sexism, the infestation and protection of sexual abusers, the double standard for religious freedoms (especially pertaining to total non-believers), the encroachment on the rights of others, the undeserved tax exempt status, the wars, the ignorance of climate and other environmental change, the ignorance of science in general, the resistance to scientific and social progress, the inability to admit wrongdoing...need I go on?

Redbeard, I am a Christian and do not identify with any of that and I am equally disgusted by those that espouse those claims based religion.  But because I identify as a Christian do you lump me in with that camp?  Since you identify as an Atheist should I lump you in with Hitler and Stalin?  I think we can both agree that would not be fair.  I will join ranks with you to fight those that identify with all you have shown, but for different reasons.

(July 29, 2015 at 11:47 am)Godschild Wrote:

(July 29, 2015 at 12:27 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: It certainly the fuck does not; you're absolutely right, though probably not in the way you're thinking.


So? The Quran teaches that there is no Gaud but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet. Buddhism teaches that we can break the cycle of reincarnation by sitting perfectly still for long enough. The Lord of the Rings teaches that Gandalf sacrificed himself so that Frodo could carry the One Ring out of Morea. What's your fucking point?

Unlike you I know for sure.

GC

No, you don't. You believe. That is not the same as knowing.

(July 29, 2015 at 11:48 am)Godschild Wrote:

(July 29, 2015 at 12:15 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: My daughter was 100% sure her invisible playmate existed too. She grew up.

No she didn't.

GC

More than you ever will.

(July 29, 2015 at 1:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: I even have hindu and muslim friends.......but I don't feel any are trying to persuade me to their belief only giving their own reasons for their belief.

So the very fact that your friends have differing and, in their minds, the one and only true belief doesn't lead you to suspect something might be wrong with all this?

(July 29, 2015 at 1:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: And again I ask if atheism is true and there is no ultimate meaning except for what each person finds for themselves, how is sharing their beliefs "harming others"?  Harming in what way?  Could that not be flipped around in you proselytizing you belief that there is no God on me, "harming me"?  Now for sake of argument, let's forget about the radical bible thumpers yelling from the street corner, because I would be right next to you yelling at those morons.  But in normal everyday conversation if you meet someone that says they are a Christian do you feel it necessary to engage them on that point?  Or do you reserve the engaging only if they try to talk to you about believing what they believe?

You state that Christians are believing something false but do you know that with 100% certainty?  I am a Christian and I keep that to myself but if asked my beliefs I will not deny them.  If we met in real life, would you have an issue with me solely on my belief (because as you state I believe in something untrue and am a potential danger to others) or would we be cool (assuming personalities aren't conflicting) unless I start telling you to believe what I do?

by all means, have your silly beliefs, talk about them and organize yourself into groups with others who share them. Please, be my guest.

Just leave the fucking kids alone.

(July 29, 2015 at 2:22 pm)TubbyTubby Wrote:

(July 29, 2015 at 1:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: I even have hindu and muslim friends.......but I don't feel any are trying to persuade me to their belief only giving their own reasons for their belief.

So the very fact that your friends have differing and, in their minds, the one and only true belief doesn't lead you to suspect something might be wrong with all this?

Because none of us can undeniably show that anyone else is wrong on this point (even if we can present enough of a case to show you might be wrong), does not in and of itself make it wrong.  It means that we all see the evidence pointing to a different conclusion.  In the end we will choose to believe what we believe based on our interpretation of the facts.  Some investigate more than others, while some feel there is no need to investigate and they will believe anyway which is their prerogative. 

You might believe there is no God, I believe there is.  Is there harm in either?

(July 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: You might believe there is no God, I believe there is.  Is there harm in either?

Yes, irreparable harm in believing in gods. History will tell you that.

(July 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: Because none of us can undeniably show that anyone else is wrong on this point (even if we can present enough of a case to show you might be wrong), does not in and of itself make it wrong.

Either all of you are wrong or all of you are wrong apart from the right one. Which would you think gives better odds?

(July 29, 2015 at 12:29 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(July 29, 2015 at 12:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: No one asked me to make it work, just what I know. Unlike you I know for certain that the God of the Bible exists. You could have never believed as I do or you would not have become an atheist. You're the one who's wrong and like I've told others death will reveal the truth to you.

GC

No, you don't. You just think you know because you don't understand the basis of knowledge.

And yes, I did believe as you do. In fact, I probably believed even more strongly than you. Being a natural empath, my emotions are powerful and I feel them deeply, which is probably why it took so long for my logic to unseat my faith. If I hadn't believed as strongly as I had, I certainly would have de-converted sooner, and I wouldn't have been so deep into ministry and prayer rituals. I even kicked a "ghost" out of someone's house one time, and did a good enough job that it fooled everyone involved (myself included).

I know full well the kind of mental gymnastics it takes for an otherwise sound, intelligent mind to protect its faith in non-evident phenomena. Your insistence that you know what I do or don't believe is only more evidence that you are a pretentious, presumptuous, self-righteous shitbag.

 Now who's putting words in someone else mouth. I know God is real, that He exists, so you couldn't have known what I know or you couldn't ever be an atheist. You could say you've walked away from God, but you couldn't say He's not real. Can't help you have mental issues about ghosts, you might want to get that checked out. I'm none of the above, I love God and know that He will always be with me, and again your death will tell you everything about God, unless you reconsider you present belief.

Gc