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Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
Thinking about the origins of the universe, and if there even were any origins, is hard.

So instead, we put a personality behind it. Some guy did it. We dress it up in lots of fancy language, but at the end of the day, we're saying some guy did it with magic. That's a very easy concept to imagine, even if you have no idea of how the magic works.

I can see this being a coping mechanism. We tend to want to personify things, because we understand people better than bizarre questions regarding physics.

But all we've actually done is replace the question with a dude. We're comfortable with there being a dude. But the dude is still the question, and has provided no answers. We've just added another unecessary assumption and layer of complexity, and face all the same questions that we had originally. But the dude is very special, and normal rules don't apply to him... That's no different to saying the normal rules don't apply to the origins of the universe, which is a very sensible thing to say in fact. Things get mighty weird near the (possible) beginning, and it's this insistence that standard models still apply that causes all the confusion I think.

All these cosmological style arguments follow the same pattern:

1- The way I understand things creates a paradox which cannot be possibly solved.

2- The paradox must have been solved, because the universe is here and working.

3- Therefor, some being must have the power to do impossible things, and he must also not be part of the paradox, or else the paradox would still be there.

Usually, part 1 is completely false, there is no paradox, just an oversimplification or misunderstanding of reality. Part 3 is just special pleading and trying to define impossible things into existence. Defining something does not mean it's even possible such a thing can exist.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
In case it's not obvious, here are some examples of why defining something does not make that thing even possible, let alone existent:

X is the smaller number greater than zero.

X is the single solution to the equation x^2 = 4.

X is the first whole number that is higher than 5 but lower than 3.

Mike is a man who is 78 feet tall and eats bowling balls for breakfast. He can also rewind time. Gravity does not apply to Mike.

Now, the last one in the list is the only one that could be possible. But that surely doesn't mean it is possible, and everything we've ever experienced would lead us to conclude that it is incredibly unlikely to be possible. The other three are simply impossible, even though I've defined them.

If you define something, it's up to you to demonstrate why it is reasonable to believe that you're referring to a non-empty set.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(August 3, 2015 at 11:34 am)ktrap Wrote:
(August 1, 2015 at 10:08 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: I really don't think my grand parents were involved. If they were...

Ewwwww!

You didn't ask for a genealogy dip-shit. You asked where I came from (more precisely, told me to ask myself). From my parents is the simplest, most direct answer. Got a problem with that? Call someone who gives a shit.

So, you gonna pony up some actual evidence or are you going to (like damned near every theist I've seen around here) stick to personal testimony, logical fallacies and tons of bullshit?

 Sorry that I did not elaborate for you.  I would of thought most would have understood the question.  Let me make it easy for the challenged.  Please tell us how you got here starting from big bang to now?

You calling me challenged. Now that's some true audacity coming from someone who makes wild claims and refuses to back them up with the least shred of evidence. As to how I got here, from the big bang... Fuck, man, do you even understand science? You know that the theories for the beginning and expansion of the universe have absolutely fuck-all to do with evaluational theory, right? Tell you what, you present some evidence (real, testable, verifiable evidence) for your gawd claims and I'll present some evidence for evolution. How 'bout it ass-hat? You up for the challenge or will you now puss out because you have no evidence?
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(August 3, 2015 at 12:33 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(August 3, 2015 at 12:30 pm)robvalue Wrote: It has an infinite number of attributes, I can't list them all.

It's definitely the best at being humble, it doesn't feel the need to leave books lying around saying how great it is.

 Wow, really is evil one of the attributes?

Why wouldn't it. It's one of the attributes of yours.
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