(August 1, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote: In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past.

There are more people. It is not the numbers, but the percentage that is a valid comparison. Moses and his desert flock killed everyone they passed in the desert.

(August 1, 2015 at 11:53 am)IATIA Wrote:

(August 1, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote: In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past.

There are more people. It is not the numbers, but the percentage that is a valid comparison. Moses and his desert flock killed everyone they passed in the desert.

My point was that people are not getting any better. What does your statment have to do with my point?

Also the Israelites did not kill everyone they came across when they were making thier way to the land of Canna. In one account they requested to go through the Edomite land but were refused so they took a different route. There is another account of people disgusing themselves as a nomad group from a distant land and tricked the Israelites into making a treaty with them. When the Israelites found out they still upheld their treaty. So are you purposely misrepresenting these accounts in the bible or are you ignorant of what the bible actually says?

(August 1, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote:

(July 27, 2015 at 7:34 am)Brakeman Wrote: You've MET god!! Wow! Finally after all these years they're going to add pages to the bible. You must be soo excited to get your meeting and the words that god spoke to you emblazoned in the bible. Was god still kinda quirky and refuse to allow you to see his face and only show his buttocks? Did god challenge you to a karate match or is he still into wrestling?

Actually, since we're atheists and deny the holy spirit, god hates us and won't forgive us according to the bible. God only loves people who believe in ridiculous fairy tales.

He didn't die for me, he died for himself because he couldn't forgive us without ridiculous ancient blood rituals. I would suggested that he just smoke a doobie and chill out. All he had to do to forgive us is just say "it's ok."  ---But to an ancient middle eastern goat herder making up these stories, that would lack drama.

No there is not.


Getting "better"?? we evolve all the time, of course we're getting better. Better at survival to pass our genome on. The value judgment you're describing as "better" is just that, a value judgment from a delusional person who thinks he/she hears messages from a telepathic invisible god.

Have you read the entire bible?
That is a good question on what I mean by better. I mean in our social, moral, and cognative development. In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past. We may be more technology advanced but we still don't love each other and in some instances we seem to be getting dumber and unwilling to think. We are hateful and treat each other as objects to be used. We are self-centered and we know that we have a problem but no amount of work we do will fix us. We are moraly corrupt.

Also that we may be on the same page what do you mean by evolution? So how are we evolving today? What mutation was benificial to our development? Which sex came first in our evolution? Did we develope a heart or brain first? How did we get the lungs we have?

Yes, I have read ALL of the bible. I've read additional books that were canon in other bibles too. I wasn't impressed as all of the books sound exactly like a ancient woo salesman pushing his con.

I noticed you skipped my first point in asking about your meeting with the ultimate magic man. Why did you skip that part? Is it because you really know that you didn't meet anybody and you just had a delusional mental episode?

I also noticed that you skipped over atheists going to hell..period.

As for the "betterment of mankind" you seem to have forgotten that the human population has exploded since  biblical times because of the development of scientific agriculture that definitely didn't come from god or the scriptures..BTW 

There were about 10 million humans alive at the time of the new testament stories. and 7 billion today. Even the war losses of WW2 are less in proportion to the Roman wars as a measure of war deaths per million. WW2 was a global war and the Roman wars were too local to be compared, as the losses of Asian and American of the time were not included.

Today's people are way more civil to each other, there is much less suffering. We are much better people now than at any biblical time.

You say we are more self centered now?? How many charities were there in the 1st century compared to now?
You may not have noticed but we don't enslave the poor or the vanquished anymore.. we became better than that through no help at all from your god.

As for your Evolution questions, those are simple elementary evolution basics that you could learn via any decent high school biology book.  I'll post you a couple of links to get you started.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB300.html
http://www.cassiopeiaproject.com/vid_cou...=Evolution

(August 2, 2015 at 9:46 am)Rekeisha Wrote: My point was that people are not getting any better. What does your statment have to do with my point?

Everything.  You said, "In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past.".

I said, "There are more people.  It is not the numbers, but the percentage that is a valid comparison.".

If the human race only killed off 2% of the 7,000,000,000 people on earth today, that would be 14,000,000 people which is more than what was probably alive back then.  If back then, they killed 5% of the population, even though the number is significantly lower, they had killed more percentage wise so today, we are getting better.

(August 2, 2015 at 2:41 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(August 1, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote: Have you read the entire bible?
That is a good question on what I mean by better. I mean in our social, moral, and cognative development. In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past. We may be more technology advanced but we still don't love each other and in some instances we seem to be getting dumber and unwilling to think. We are hateful and treat each other as objects to be used. We are self-centered and we know that we have a problem but no amount of work we do will fix us. We are moraly corrupt.

Also that we may be on the same page what do you mean by evolution? So how are we evolving today? What mutation was benificial to our development? Which sex came first in our evolution? Did we develope a heart or brain first? How did we get the lungs we have?

Yes, I have read ALL of the bible. I've read additional books that were canon in other bibles too. I wasn't impressed as all of the books sound exactly like a ancient woo salesman pushing his con.

I noticed you skipped my first point in asking about your meeting with the ultimate magic man. Why did you skip that part? Is it because you really know that you didn't meet anybody and you just had a delusional mental episode?

I also noticed that you skipped over atheists going to hell..period.

As for the "betterment of mankind" you seem to have forgotten that the human population has exploded since  biblical times because of the development of scientific agriculture that definitely didn't come from god or the scriptures..BTW 

There were about 10 million humans alive at the time of the new testament stories. and 7 billion today. Even the war losses of WW2 are less in proportion to the Roman wars as a measure of war deaths per million. WW2 was a global war and the Roman wars were too local to be compared, as the losses of Asian and American of the time were not included.

Today's people are way more civil to each other, there is much less suffering. We are much better people now than at any biblical time.

You say we are more self centered now?? How many charities were there in the 1st century compared to now?
You may not have noticed but we don't enslave the poor or the vanquished anymore.. we became better than that through no help at all from your god.

As for your Evolution questions, those are simple elementary evolution basics that you could learn via any decent high school biology book.  I'll post you a couple of links to get you started.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB300.html
http://www.cassiopeiaproject.com/vid_cou...=Evolution

You assume that I am the only one that has heard from God since the Bible was written.
Since you have read the Bible you would have read that in Proverbs 30:6, Deut 4:2, Deut 12:32 and in Rev22:18-19 it strongly warns that no one is to add or subtract from God's word. So no I am not going to add to God's words

As for God not loving you because you don't belive in Him you would have read that in John 3:16 that it says that "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but Have eternal life." Also you have read in Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
My question to you is where does it say in the Bible that God only loves those who only belives in fairy tales?

I apologize i was incorrect more poeple have been kiled in the 20th century than all centuries combined in History by democide.

How would you define forgivness? How would you define justice?

(August 2, 2015 at 8:41 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(August 2, 2015 at 9:46 am)Rekeisha Wrote: My point was that people are not getting any better. What does your statment have to do with my point?

Everything.  You said, "In the 20th century the human race killed more people than any century in the past.".

I said, "There are more people.  It is not the numbers, but the percentage that is a valid comparison.".

If the human race only killed off 2% of the 7,000,000,000 people on earth today, that would be 14,000,000 people which is more than what was probably alive back then.  If back then, they killed 5% of the population, even though the number is significantly lower, they had killed more percentage wise so today, we are getting better.

I just answerd this with Brakeman

(August 3, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote: You assume that I am the only one that has heard from God since the Bible was written.
Since you have read the Bible you would have read that in Proverbs 30:6, Deut 4:2, Deut 12:32 and in Rev22:18-19 it strongly warns that no one is  to add or subtract from God's word. So no I am not going to add to God's words

As for God not loving you because you don't belive in Him you would have read that in John 3:16 that it says that "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but Have eternal life." Also you have read in Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
My question to you is where does it say in the Bible that God only loves those who only belives in fairy tales?

..
How would you define forgivness? How would you define justice?

I think you are misunderstanding Revalation's admonition. The bible is the complete word of god and individuals are not to add to it, but everything god says is supposed to be included in it. If it weren't, it wouldn't be the "complete" word of god. So you aren't supposed to add anything to it that god didn't really say, that'll get you smote or something, but if god REALLY met and spoke to you, the world needs to hear this addition to god's word. I'm sure the holy spirit will confirm your truths to all other true christians so that it will be added forthwith.

As for god hating unbelievers..

Quote:Question: "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

Answer: The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term “blasphemy” may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31.

Since I don't believe in god or the holy spirit, I blaspheme when I attribute the claims of the holy spirit to be a mental delusion. This is something god says he won't forgive. He claims he hates it so much he's going to toss me in a lake of fire when I die to be tortured for all of eternity. That is a shit-load of hate. How much hate would it take to make you say to someone else that you want to torture them for billions of years in the worst pain imaginable??

I define forgiveness as the simple relinquishment of a debt, without any ancient blood rituals, or killing of innocents.

If I were to ask you to forgive me if I stepped on your toe, would you demand my eye to forgive me? Would you demand that I kill something valuable to me like my pet dog? Would you demand that kill your child? No. If a debt is owed, then additional demands by the debtee become payments of the debt and must be agreed to by the debtor.
I do not owe a debt to god because Eve ate a magic fruit. I am not Eve. I've never met god and I don't believe I owe him anything and I don't wish for him to hurt anyone or anything else to appease debts from myself. If I am guilty of a crime, I want to be punished for it fairly and not have an innocent man pay for my faults.

(August 4, 2015 at 7:55 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(August 3, 2015 at 11:47 am)Rekeisha Wrote: You assume that I am the only one that has heard from God since the Bible was written.
Since you have read the Bible you would have read that in Proverbs 30:6, Deut 4:2, Deut 12:32 and in Rev22:18-19 it strongly warns that no one is  to add or subtract from God's word. So no I am not going to add to God's words

As for God not loving you because you don't belive in Him you would have read that in John 3:16 that it says that "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but Have eternal life." Also you have read in Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
My question to you is where does it say in the Bible that God only loves those who only belives in fairy tales?

..
How would you define forgivness? How would you define justice?

I think you are misunderstanding Revalation's admonition. The bible is the complete word of god and individuals are not to add to it, but everything god says is supposed to be included in it. If it weren't, it wouldn't be the "complete" word of god. So you aren't supposed to add anything to it that god didn't really say, that'll get you smote or something, but if god REALLY met and spoke to you, the world needs to hear this addition to god's word. I'm sure the holy spirit will confirm your truths to all other true christians so that it will be added forthwith.

As for god hating unbelievers..

Quote:Question: "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

Answer: The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term “blasphemy” may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31.

Since I don't believe in god or the holy spirit, I blaspheme when I attribute the claims of the holy spirit to be a mental delusion. This is something god says he won't forgive. He claims he hates it so much he's going to toss me in a lake of fire when I die to be tortured for all of eternity. That is a shit-load of hate. How much hate would it take to make you say to someone else that you want to torture them for billions of years in the worst pain imaginable??

I define forgiveness as the simple relinquishment of a debt, without any ancient blood rituals, or killing of innocents.

If I were to ask you to forgive me if I stepped on your toe, would you demand my eye to forgive me? Would you demand that I kill something valuable to me like my pet dog? Would you demand that kill your child? No. If a debt is owed, then additional demands by the debtee become payments of the debt and must be agreed to by the debtor.
I do not owe a debt to god because Eve ate a magic fruit. I am not Eve. I've never met god and I don't believe I owe him anything and I don't wish for him to hurt anyone or anything else to appease debts from myself. If I am guilty of a crime, I want to be punished for it fairly and not have an innocent man pay for my faults.

When the church speaks of the complete works of God we don't mean all the words of God that are spoken to His people but that the Bible has all the necessary parts. There are some really good book about the bible and about living the life has call every Christian to live but that doesn't mean that we should add them to the bible.

The bible has all the necessary parts for understanding who God is but if you cherry pick the Bible you will fall into error. So let me correct myself God both hates you and loves you. Let me explain. God is a Holy God in Isaiah and Revelation the angels chant that God is holy holy holy (Isaiah 6:3 and Rev 4:8). The word holy appearing 3 times is an exclamation of the fact that God is completely and totally Holy removed from anything sinful or profane. Now lets look at you. You already admit that you don't believe in God and that make you a fool (psalms 14:1). Romans 1:18-22 speaks about how with your denial of God your suppress the truth about God and He hates that. This is because when you suppress the truth about Him you are are promoting a lie. You are promoting evil instead of good. Rebellion instead of harmony. You are causing others to sin with your propaganda against God. He created you and gives you the breath in your lungs and you spit in his face call Him a tyrant and evil. It is you how are evil and it is you who set yourself up against a Holy and righteous God. Still in-spite of you being and enemy of God He died for you Romans 5:8. I don't know what enemy you are willing to die for. Who are you going to lay down your life for who spends their entire life in willful and in active opposition against you? See not only is God Holy but He is Just. Your active rebellion must be paid for. You can do it yourself and that would be hell or God in His mercy can take care of your debt. Jesus humbled Himself greatly for you in order to fix your relationship with Him. That is love. It isn't some emotion that makes you and other feel good it is a a total laying aside of  wants wishes to seeking the betterment of someone else. God is love. So God can appease His hate for you by giving you His righteousness through the Holy Spirit that will be given to you if you accept his sacrifice for you on the cross. Or you can continue in your rebellion and God will pour His wrath on you. I hope that you would pray that God would grant you repentance so that you may repent and follow after Him.

Ok. Why is Ezekiel 23:19-21 important in understanding god? ಠ_ಠ

Or the lists of generations and people in Genesis? Or the details of the ark? Or the Jewish law of the time? How is that helpful or necessary to understanding god?

Furthermore, are you saying god is knowable?

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote:

(August 4, 2015 at 7:55 am)Brakeman Wrote: I think you are misunderstanding Revalation's admonition. The bible is the complete word of god and individuals are not to add to it, but everything god says is supposed to be included in it. If it weren't, it wouldn't be the "complete" word of god. So you aren't supposed to add anything to it that god didn't really say, that'll get you smote or something, but if god REALLY met and spoke to you, the world needs to hear this addition to god's word. I'm sure the holy spirit will confirm your truths to all other true christians so that it will be added forthwith.

As for god hating unbelievers..

Since I don't believe in god or the holy spirit, I blaspheme when I attribute the claims of the holy spirit to be a mental delusion. This is something god says he won't forgive. He claims he hates it so much he's going to toss me in a lake of fire when I die to be tortured for all of eternity. That is a shit-load of hate. How much hate would it take to make you say to someone else that you want to torture them for billions of years in the worst pain imaginable??

I define forgiveness as the simple relinquishment of a debt, without any ancient blood rituals, or killing of innocents.

If I were to ask you to forgive me if I stepped on your toe, would you demand my eye to forgive me? Would you demand that I kill something valuable to me like my pet dog? Would you demand that kill your child? No. If a debt is owed, then additional demands by the debtee become payments of the debt and must be agreed to by the debtor.
I do not owe a debt to god because Eve ate a magic fruit. I am not Eve. I've never met god and I don't believe I owe him anything and I don't wish for him to hurt anyone or anything else to appease debts from myself. If I am guilty of a crime, I want to be punished for it fairly and not have an innocent man pay for my faults.

When the church speaks of the complete works of God we don't mean all the words of God that are spoken to His people but that the Bible has all the necessary parts.

Oh yes it does! That is exactly what the complete "Word" of god means. It would be silly otherwise as you would be excluding other possible commandments. If god told you that exposing toes in public is a sin, then it would make no sense whatsoever that this new commandment wouldn't be included. To claim it is the only necessary parts is faulty because who is to judge god's word as to what is necessary or not? God  hasn't published a list of what scriptures are necessary and what scriptures aren't. The composed bibles were made canon by judgment of truth, not necessity. They included All the scripture that was felt to be god verified by the spirit, they didn't canonize into the bible any bible school lessons or any bible "fanfic" as the goal was to address all of god's word and all of the spirit verified histories.

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: ..
You already admit that you don't believe in God and that make you a fool (psalms 14:1). Romans 1:18-22 speaks about how with your denial of God your suppress the truth about God and He hates that. This is because when you suppress the truth about Him you are are promoting a lie. You are promoting evil instead of good. Rebellion instead of harmony. You are causing others to sin with your propaganda against God. He created you and gives you the breath in your lungs and you spit in his face call Him a tyrant and evil.

Of course I can't spit in his face because he hides from me. He hides from everyone and has convinced you that his missing presence is "normal." I believe what seems reasonable and logical inside my little human brain. The conclusion of fact, or belief, is not a choice of mine. I can only fake believing something if I don't. So the brain god gave me and the experiences god allowed me to see have convinced me that god is an imaginary construct of primitive men. Because I am honest and true to my fellow man, your god calls me evil and a rebel and wants to burn and torture me forever without bothering to show his face to me and without talking to me. He would rather torture me forever than reveal himself to me for a moment. That's your god of love.. Some Love! He doesn't give a man a chance to believe him after death because he would be revealed. God is completely unforgiving after our fragile weak bodies cease and no amount of contrition or begging would change his cruel mind.

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: ..So God can appease His hate for you by giving you His righteousness through the Holy Spirit that will be given to you if you accept his sacrifice for you on the cross. ..

Again, the sacrifice was desired by god, it was his made up rules that said that innocent blood has to be spilled for some weird reason. God wanted a sacrifice - god made a sacrifice - this has nothing to do with me..