(August 10, 2015 at 3:53 am)Lucanus Wrote:

(August 10, 2015 at 3:32 am)Little Rik Wrote: Sure, all bodies die sooner or later.
But who really die?
Have you got any solid evidence that the energy die as well?
Have you got any evidence that energy doesn't go hand in hand with consciousness?
Let us see this evidence IAT.
In the meantime my suggestion is to avoid make statements like this until you got solid evidence
to the contrary.



One more guessing IAT.
Didn't i suggest you to come up with evidence to the contrary before you state your guessing?
Have a good day.  

Quote:Dude you are the one making the positive claim that "energy goes hand in hand with consciousness". Once you say that, if you want other people to believe it, YOU must provide the evidence that that is the case!
Because as everyone has said a thousand times here, there is NO evidence of a consciousness existing outside of a brain!
Since you don't appear to understand how the burden of proof works, I'll make it very simple:
Suppose we're standing face to face, and I tell you that I have 500€ in my pocket. You don't necessarily believe me, and ask me to show you those 500€.
Now, I can do two things:
1. Show you the 500€, you believe me and we go on with our lives
2. Tell you that you have no evidence that I DON'T have those 500€, raise my middle finger and continue acting like I actually have those 500€. See the difference?

Energy and consciousness must always go hand in hand.
Energy is not blind.
Has got to follow certain direction and therefore there has got to be
a consciousness that direct that energy.  

(August 10, 2015 at 5:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: Energy and consciousness must always go hand in hand.
Energy is not blind.
Has got to follow certain direction and therefore there has got to be a consciousness that direct that energy.  

This is another unsupported assertion. Why is a consciousness necessary for energy to have a direction? Why do you postulate the existence of an entity (a consciousness) when all that is necessary to explain this phenomenon are the laws of physics?

Oh, and by the way, could you tell me what energy is? I want to see your definition of it.

(August 10, 2015 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote: You are making a hell of a confusion mate.
All your points are build on guessing and guessing alone.
Physical death is no evidence that YOU die.
First of all you should consider that body-brain and consciousness can be separate and will separate as soon as the parallelism between body and consciousness is over.

Unsupported claim. Please give evidence that consciousness is separate from the functions of the brain and can exist outside of it. (89th time we're asking you this)

(August 10, 2015 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote: If you go along with the theory that when the body die is all over then you may well think that when your car rot away you rot away as well.

This analogy falls flat on its face when you consider that I am demonstrably an entity separate from my car, while my consciousness (whatever that is anyway) is not in any way demonstrably separate from my body.

(August 10, 2015 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote: This sort of believes belong to the stone age not to this age of knowledge.

Yeah, sure

(August 10, 2015 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote: My believes are based on results.
Suppose someone tell you......IF YOU DO SUCH A THING YOU WILL GET SUCH RESULT.
I did that thing and i got that result so i believe that by doing that thing the result will be as was indicated to me.

Sorry, but what did you do exactly? What results did you get and with what premises? The way you present your reasoning is not clear.

(August 10, 2015 at 4:49 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why i do not do the claim then?
Because the matter in question is not physical where the evidence must be physical.
Here we are in the real of spirituality and the evidence obviously is not physical.
Atheism is based on matter but matter has really nothing to do with something much
higher and more subtle.  

Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). What you mean is probably materialism, but whatever, there are worse mistakes in your post here.

What is the realm of spirituality? How do you prove its existence? And why shouldn't physical evidence count when "energy", which affects all of the "physical realm" is supposedly "spiritual" in nature? If the spiritual interacts with the physical, shouldn't we be able to tell? If so, why? And if not, why bother with postulating something that can't be experienced at all (and whose existence therefore doesn't mean anything)?

I wiped my ass today, Rik.

Later I observed an Arabic wedding celebration across the street from my parent's house.

And like your supposed "results" from doing the "thing" that was recommended for your "spiritual" i.e. emotional gratification, the fact of the subsequent event of the wedding does not establish any logical connection to the earlier act of wiping my ass.

Whatever context you choose to identity the experience that you call "spirituality" is irrelevant to the physiological changes that occur in your brain; for some of us, it's even more gratifying to learn that we can appreciate such experiences without elevating ignorance and demeaning the possibility of attaining a more accurate and refined understanding of them.

(August 10, 2015 at 3:39 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(August 9, 2015 at 11:21 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: Good morning, RikRik.  Top of the mornin' to ya, mate.

I interrupt this thread for a non-urgent question.  Ricky, do you ever have doubts about any of it?  When other people voice those doubts for you, then you can get thoroughly behind rebutting them.  But what happens if no one challenges your assorted definitions and dogmas, do you sometimes doubt any of it yourself?

What if I'm wrong?  I can ask that.  Can you?

Life is full of doubts.
I don't know if i will be alive or not in the next few minutes.
A plane can fall on my house and kill me so i could not finish this post and you will never know
Little Rik answer.
Just imagine how sad would be.
I am sure you will cry for days on hand Whatever.
Would you? 

Not really.  I don't find death all that remarkable or sad.  More like inevitable.  You will cease to be but that won't be a calamity for you, you'll be beyond all suffering.  That which made you unique will disappear but that which makes you part of the dance of life can go on.  Composting does a body wonders.  Just choose a simple shroud instead of a concrete or metal box.  Invite life in so that you can get out.

Still not using the correct definition of atheism.

This is a bold level of dishonesty. You're on an atheist forum, you think we're not going to notice?

People with solid arguments don't need to misrepresent their opponent's position to make their case.

(August 10, 2015 at 6:29 am)robvalue Wrote: This is a bold level of willful misrepresentation. You're on an atheist forum, you think we're not going to notice?

I for one have noticed and am very....KITTENS!!!! *skips away*

Kittens again!? Kittens! They are cute

If you look at the start of this thread, the very first reply was me giving a link to exactly what atheism is and calling out the strawman.

Forty pages later, same strawman. What the fuck man.

Would Rik like it if I started saying yoga was a particular way of arranging coins?

(August 10, 2015 at 6:47 am)robvalue Wrote: Kittens again!? Kittens! They are cute

If you look at the start of this thread, the very first reply was me giving a link to exactly what atheism is and calling out the strawman.

Forty pages later, same strawman. What the fuck man.

Would Rik like it if I started saying yoga was a particular way of arranging coins?

wait yoga?  ohhhh....thought me meant yoda.  

Here's to you Rik!