Quote:An all-powerful and perfect being could create a system with free will and not have it all come crashing down because of something that he himself built into the system. Something all-powerful and all-perfect could create beings that can choose not to love him and they would all still love him. All-powerful means able to do anything. By all written accounts, your Gaud is an incompetent designer. If he designed the system to include (or even just knowing it would result in) sin and suffering, then he is malicious and not all-loving. If he couldn't create a system without those things, then he is not all-powerful. If he failed to create a system that could not be disrupted by those things, then he is not all-perfect.

 
You are mistaken about the definition for all powerful, it means that to have full and complete power. Also when you say that God can make people who both don't love Him and love Him at the same time you are committing a  logical contradiction. God can't make logical contradictions like a square circle or a rock to big for Him to lift. 
 
Also when you make deductions with two negative premises you are going to end at a incorrect conclusion. You are committing a formal fallacy because your pattern of reasoning is incorrect.
 
God is an incompetent designer
the system includes sin and suffering
____________________________
therefore God is malicious and not all-loving
 
God is an incompetent designer
God can't create a system without sin and suffering
_______________________________
Therefore He is not all powerful
 
Your conclusions don't make sense.
 

Quote:Let's see...the fact that virtually all of its stories disagree broadly with mainstream science and history, the fact that virtually all of its tenets and narratives are stolen from other cultures

 
could you please give at least one example from each of your categories or at the very least one example that you are speaking of.
 

Quote: the fact that it can easily be used to incite and condone horrendous atrocities against humans,

 
Just because people can manipulate others by misinformation is not a good enough reason to say the construction of the bible is bad. Many people can take almost anything and twist it to benefit their evil desires.
 
 

Quote:the fact that it endorses and regulates slavery

You again are making another mistake because of your definition of slavery. You are trying to use our modern definition of slavery and applying it to the definition of slavery at the time the Bible was written. Slavery in the Bible was for one who could not pay a debt or provide for their families. During the time of Jesus some highly skilled individuals were slaves like doctors, lawyers and politicians. As for the slavery that was in the Western countries from the 17th century up until now is explicitly forbidden in  Ex 21:16 16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession. (1 Tim 1:8-10) So God does not condone that kind of slavery. Anyone who uses the bible to condone this is playing on the ignorance of their audience.
 

Quote:(including guidelines for selling one's daughter as a sex slave)...shit, like all of it, basically. It's a horrible book, and it's ALL fictional.

 
What verses in the Bible are talking about? Or is there a reference you are speaking of?

Quote:How about the fact that he never spoke to begin with? How about the fact that he most likely does not exist? Those are both good reasons.

 
You are contradicting yourself because you first said that he stopped speaking 2000 years ago. So if he stopped speaking that implies that He started to speak at some time.
 

Quote:What love-inspired reason could he possibly have had for creating a system where suffering was somehow inherent or necessary?

 
God comforts us in our affliction and we can comfort others through what we have been through. Also we learn to trust totally in God.
2 Corthians 1:3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. 4 He comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any kind of affliction, through the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so through Christ our comfort also overflows. 6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation. If we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is experienced in your endurance of the same sufferings that we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that as you share in the sufferings, so you will share in the comfort. 8 For we don’t want you to be unaware, • brothers , of our affliction that took place in • Asia : we were completely overwhelmed —beyond our strength—so that we even despaired of life. 9 Indeed, we personally had a death sentence within ourselves, so that we would not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a terrible death, and He will deliver us. We have put our hope in Him that He will deliver us again 11 while you join in helping us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gift that came to us through the prayers of many.
 
I see this verse being lived out in my Grandfather who has cancer and he has a very slim chance of surviving it. I would rather he not have it but because of it this cancer our relationship, which was once strained, is now mended because of this sickness.
 
James 1:2-4 2 Consider it a great joy, my • brothers , whenever you experience various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
 
I don't trust in God because He is going to make my life pain free but because He is worth following. He is reliable and trust worth and not matter what I am going through I am sustained by Him. He also changes me and removes, through suffering and disciple, those things that are ungodly.  
 

Quote:but not for any and every little perceived offense someone commits against me, which is how your Gaud purportedly handles it.

 
God doesn't send people to hell for tripping over Him or sneezing on Him. He sends them for hell for spreading lies about Him. All the false gods, anything we put above him, and even denying His existence are all lies about the character of God.
 

Quote:Furthermore, there is absolutely no finite crime in this world anyone could do to me or anyone else that would justify eternal torture. That isn't justice by any definition I would accept.

 
No, I wouldn't expect someone to pay an eternal punishment if they wronged you because you are finite.. So if you sin against a infinite God then you should pay a infinite punishment.
 

Quote:What part of the Golden Rule is so hard for Gaud people?

Matt 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." You follow this rule always? He understands it more than you could even conceived especially since it is based on his character. God stepped into our shoes and lived a human life. He experienced ever hardship and didn't sin and then died so that our sins against His infinite nature would be paid for.
 

Quote:No, it assumes that people suffer when they are raped, killed, and enslaved.

So experiencing pain determines what should and shouldn't be done?
 
You still haven't pointed to any biblical account of what you spoke when God condones rape, and genocide (I already discussed slavery)
 

Quote:Because he is consciousness in the absence of matter.

So are thoughts and ideas

Quote:Because he is said to exist outside the material Universe and yet still be able to affect the material Universe observably.

If he made the box (universe) why couldn't he reach in and affect it?
 

Quote:By today's standard. What else? I'm right, too. And yes, I've studied the cultures in question. They knew practically nothing of science and the natural world, hence the content of the creation account, the flood story, etc. All you have to do to know this is read the things they wrote.

 
How long have you studied this culture? Also just because they didn't know what we know doesn't make their knowledge practically non-existent. Science an technology are not the only forms of knowledge and would it be fare for future societies to judge us on the same standard that you are judging them?
What makes today's standard the correct standard to use?
 

Quote:Today's modern, western, secular morality objectively contains less suffering and more rights/equality than Bible morality, so today's morality is objectively better than Bible morality.

Please elaborate.
 

Quote:I can say it and empathy objectively exist because we can observe them in objective reality.

So reality is not just what is material.
 

Quote:Because I have the knowledge and critical thinking skills to tell when I'm looking at good evidence.

So you have never been incorrect?

(August 12, 2015 at 3:20 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: You are mistaken about the definition for all powerful, it means that to have full and complete power. Also when you say that God can make people who both don't love Him and love Him at the same time you are committing a  logical contradiction. God can't make logical contradictions like a square circle or a rock to big for Him to lift.

 
Says you. Also, I didn't say he could create people that both love and don't love him. I said that if he were all-powerful and completely perfect, he could give everyone the choice and they would still always choose him. An all-powerful, perfect being could set up a system where free will exists and still nobody chooses wrong.

Quote:Also when you make deductions with two negative premises you are going to end at a incorrect conclusion. You are committing a formal fallacy because your pattern of reasoning is incorrect.
 
God is an incompetent designer
the system includes sin and suffering
____________________________
therefore God is malicious and not all-loving
 
God is an incompetent designer
God can't create a system without sin and suffering
_______________________________
Therefore He is not all powerful
 
Your conclusions don't make sense.

 Um...yeah, they do. If God  created a system that includes suffering, then it means one of two things: either he wants us to suffer, or he doesn't want us to suffer but had to set the system up that way despite his wishes. If he wished for us to suffer, he is not all-loving, and if he was unable to prevent it despite his own wishes, then he is not all-powerful.

Quote:

Quote:Let's see...the fact that virtually all of its stories disagree broadly with mainstream science and history, the fact that virtually all of its tenets and narratives are stolen from other cultures

could you please give at least one example from each of your categories or at the very least one example that you are speaking of.

Let's see...starting with examples of scientific problems, the creation account is scientifically impossible as written, the flood story is scientifically impossible as written, the gospels are full of miracles and resurrections that are scientifically impossible, the parting of the Red Sea is scientifically impossible, the Exodus from and enslavement in Egypt seems to have never happened according to archaeology...the list goes on.

As for stuff that's stolen...many mythologies have flood stories like Noah's, strong men like Samson, dying and rising gods like Jesus, much of the early Bible treats Jehovah as a wind and/or mountain god like those found in other early faiths...

Oh gosh, was that too many examples?

Quote:Just because people can manipulate others by misinformation is not a good enough reason to say the construction of the bible is bad. Many people can take almost anything and twist it to benefit their evil desires.

There is no reason to twist the Bible if you're trying to rouse people to violence and/or atrocity. Plenty of the Bible can be used this way as written, like the parts about throwing rocks at gay people until they're dead and the parts about slaves being expected to obey their masters...speaking of which...

Quote:You again are making another mistake because of your definition of slavery. You are trying to use our modern definition of slavery and applying it to the definition of slavery at the time the Bible was written. Slavery in the Bible was for one who could not pay a debt or provide for their families. During the time of Jesus some highly skilled individuals were slaves like doctors, lawyers and politicians. As for the slavery that was in the Western countries from the 17th century up until now is explicitly forbidden in  Ex 21:16 16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession. (1 Tim 1:8-10) So God does not condone that kind of slavery. Anyone who uses the bible to condone this is playing on the ignorance of their audience.

 
What verses in the Bible are talking about? Or is there a reference you are speaking of?

You're fucking kidding me, right? You didn't even try to Google this first so you wouldn't look like a fool? You're just throwing this assertion out there? Ok...here we go.

First off, if you think biblical slavery was somehow more humane/less brutal than any other form of slavery, you're just wrong. Furthermore, if you think that every slave held by biblical cultures was a debt slave, you'd be wrong again. Many of them were war-prisoners, and many of them were bought from other groups

Here is the full passage from Exodus that you're quoting:

---

Laws About Slaves

21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.

15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.

18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.

20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,[d]then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.

28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death.30 If a ransom is imposed on him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man's son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels[e] of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

---

 
I'm not gonna go through every scrap of that, but I would like to point out some highlights:

That first paragraph entails what to do with Hebrew slaves after they've "served their time," and if they started a family while enslaved then the only way to keep his family is to give up his freedom forever. There are no instructions about freeing females or children, so it's to be presumed that only grown Hebrew men could be freed from slavery by this time limit. What a kind form of slavery this is.

Right after that you have instructions for selling a daughter into sexual slavery, and what should be done with her if she isn't pleasing to the man that buys her. What a kind form of slavery this is.

Verse 20 says that if you beat your slave to death, you'll be punished...unless it takes him a day or two to die. Then you're in the clear. What a kind form of slavery this is.

Verses 26 and 27 say you have to release your slave if you knock out their eye or tooth. You're free to beat them...just don't knock out their eyes or teeth. What a kind form of slavery this is.

The verse you mentioned (verse 16) is a little vague, so we may have to get between the lines a bit to determine what they're actually talking about. Considering the tone and content of the rest of this passage, it most likely admonishes against kidnapping other people's slaves or kidnapping Hebrew citizens to be used/sold as slaves. Even if it forbids the Hebrews from kidnapping anyone to be used for slavery, it says nothing about buying from other groups slaves who have been kidnapped or seized as war prisoners.

Quote:You are contradicting yourself because you first said that he stopped speaking 2000 years ago. So if he stopped speaking that implies that He started to speak at some time.

 
What I meant is that the Bible is about 2,000 years old. Way to not understand figurative language. Go you.

Quote:God comforts us in our affliction and we can comfort others through what we have been through. Also we learn to trust totally in God.
2 Corthians 1:3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. 4 He comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any kind of affliction, through the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For as the sufferings of Christ overflow to us, so through Christ our comfort also overflows. 6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation. If we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is experienced in your endurance of the same sufferings that we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that as you share in the sufferings, so you will share in the comfort. 8 For we don’t want you to be unaware, • brothers , of our affliction that took place in • Asia : we were completely overwhelmed —beyond our strength—so that we even despaired of life. 9 Indeed, we personally had a death sentence within ourselves, so that we would not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a terrible death, and He will deliver us. We have put our hope in Him that He will deliver us again 11 while you join in helping us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gift that came to us through the prayers of many.
 
I see this verse being lived out in my Grandfather who has cancer and he has a very slim chance of surviving it. I would rather he not have it but because of it this cancer our relationship, which was once strained, is now mended because of this sickness.
 
James 1:2-4 2 Consider it a great joy, my • brothers , whenever you experience various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
 
I don't trust in God because He is going to make my life pain free but because He is worth following. He is reliable and trust worth and not matter what I am going through I am sustained by Him. He also changes me and removes, through suffering and disciple, those things that are ungodly.  

An all-powerful being could have created a system where we could still enjoy all those benefits without having to suffer for them. Again, the presence of suffering means that Gaud either wanted it to exist or couldn't design the system without it, the first rendering him malicious and the second rendering him non-omnipotent.

Quote:God doesn't send people to hell for tripping over Him or sneezing on Him. He sends them for hell for spreading lies about Him. All the false gods, anything we put above him, and even denying His existence are all lies about the character of God.

 
According to Christian doctrine it only takes one sin to land a person in hell, and it doesn't matter which sin it is. All offenses are equally grievous to Gaud. If you go to your grave without accepting Jesus and the ONLY biblical sin you committed was eating shellfish, guess what? Hell. Your Gaud is vengeful and petty in the extreme. Fuck that guy.

Quote:No, I wouldn't expect someone to pay an eternal punishment if they wronged you because you are finite.. So if you sin against a infinite God then you should pay a infinite punishment.

 
So what you're saying is that the punishment should not fit the nature of the crime, but the nature of the being it was committed against? That's fucking stupid.

Quote:Matt 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." You follow this rule always? He understands it more than you could even conceived especially since it is based on his character. God stepped into our shoes and lived a human life. He experienced ever hardship and didn't sin and then died so that our sins against His infinite nature would be paid for.

If you're really going to try to tell me that the Golden Rule originates with the Bible, piss off with that shit. The Golden Rule predates the Bible by at least a few hundred years, easily.

Quote:So experiencing pain determines what should and shouldn't be done?

 
Not necessarily pain, but suffering. Not all pain is actually suffering, as the BDSM community will gladly explain to you.

Quote:You still haven't pointed to any biblical account of what you spoke when God condones rape, and genocide (I already discussed slavery)

 
Yeah, and you were wrong about slavery. As for rape and genocide, this link covers a little of both: http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

Quote:

Quote:Because he is consciousness in the absence of matter.

So are thoughts and ideas

No, those things require brains, and brains are made of matter.

Quote:

Quote:Because he is said to exist outside the material Universe and yet still be able to affect the material Universe observably.

If he made the box (universe) why couldn't he reach in and affect it?

Because he is non-material and the box is filled with material items.
 

Quote:How long have you studied this culture? Also just because they didn't know what we know doesn't make their knowledge practically non-existent. Science an technology are not the only forms of knowledge and would it be fare for future societies to judge us on the same standard that you are judging them?
What makes today's standard the correct standard to use?

 
Longer than you have, unless you have a claim to the contrary. I'm not even gonna play that game with you, honestly. That's some ad hominem bullshit.

Nothing says today's standard is correct, but it is better than biblical standards for reasons I've already mentioned.

Quote:

Quote:Today's modern, western, secular morality objectively contains less suffering and more rights/equality than Bible morality, so today's morality is objectively better than Bible morality.

Please elaborate.

 
Ummm...more equal rights for women and minorities, less sexism, less slavery, less violence...are we really doing this right now?

Quote:

Quote:I can say it and empathy objectively exist because we can observe them in objective reality.

So reality is not just what is material.

 
I never said it was. I said the only way to know if something is real is if there's evidence that it's real. Take down that poor straw man and stop hitting him with that stick.

Quote:

Quote:Because I have the knowledge and critical thinking skills to tell when I'm looking at good evidence.

So you have never been incorrect?

In what way is that relevant? Are you saying I can't judge the validity of evidence because I'm not right about everything? By the same logic, you can't know if your Gaud is real.

Quote:Says you.

 
Webster's revised unabridged dictionary 1913 + 1828
 
ALL-POW''ERFUL, a. Almighty; omnipotent.
 
Almighty
Possessing all power; omnipotent; being of unlimited might; being of boundless sufficiency; appropriately applied to the Supreme Being.
 
omnipotent
1. Almighty; possessing unlimited power; all powerful. The being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
2. Having unlimited power of a particular kind; as omnipotent love.
 
Strong's Dictionary
 
Almighty is Shadday in Hebrew meaning most powerful
Almighty in Greek is pantokratōr

1. he who holds sway over all things
   
2. the ruler of all
   
3. almighty: God
   

 
International standard Bible Encyclopedia
Almighty:
ol-mit'-i:
(1) (shaddai [Ge 17:1]): Found in the Old Testament forty-eight times, most of these in the Book of Job; it occurs either alone or in combination with 'el, "God"). The root meaning is uncertain.
Almighty and Omnipotent
(2) (pantokrator), the exclusive translation of this Greek word in the New Testament, found principally in Re (nine times), once besides (2Co 6:18). Its occurrence in the Apocrypha is frequent
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Almighty:
"almighty, or ruler of all" (pas, "all," krateo, "to hold, or to have strength"), is used of God only, and is found, in the Epistles, only in 2Cr 6:18, where the title is suggestive in connection with the context; elsewhere only in the Apocalypse, nine times. In one place, Rev 19:6, the AV has "omnipotent;" RV, "(the Lord our God,) the Almighty." The word is introduced in the Sept. as a translation of "Lord (or God) of hosts," e.g., Jer 5:14 and Amo 4:13.
Dictionary.com
All-powerful
1. having or exercising exclusive and unlimited authority; omnipotent.
 

Quote:Also, I didn't say he could create people that both love and don't love him. I said that if he were all-powerful and completely perfect, he could give everyone the choice and they would still always choose him. An all-powerful, perfect being could set up a system where free will exists and still nobody chooses wrong.

I do not understand how that is giving His creation a choice.  If you have a choice of wither to love Him or to Love Him that isn't choosing.
 
Also we were created in the image of God and He continually chooses to love us and if we are to be like Him we must have the ability to actually choose not live in a world without the pretense of choosing love.
 

Quote:If God  created a system that includes suffering, then it means one of two things: either he wants us to suffer, or he doesn't want us to suffer but had to set the system up that way despite his wishes.

 
It seems as though you are assuming that 1) all suffering is evil and only produces evil in a person's life and 2) that there are only two possibilities of a God who creates a world without suffering. 3) that the system that he created included suffering.
 
1) Suffering can bring clarity and make you evaluate your action. Some suffering is necessary if one is to be healed or mature. Suffering can be humbling and more giving. Suffering can also point you to the fact that there is something wrong.
 
2) God created a world with the possibility of suffering because He wanted to allow His human creations, which ere made in his image, the possibility to choose to follow Him.
 
3) When God created the universe it was good and when He created man it was very good. The system didn't have suffering until humanity rejected God's proscribed way of living.
 

Quote:Let's see...starting with examples of scientific problems, the creation account is scientifically impossible as written, the flood story is scientifically impossible as written,
the gospels are full of miracles and resurrections that are scientifically impossible,
the parting of the Red Sea is scientifically impossible,

how

Quote:the Exodus from and enslavement in Egypt seems to have never happened according to archaeology...the list goes on.

 
Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes that the price of 20 shekels is a price of a slave in the near east in about the 18th century BC. Gen 37:28 says that Joseph was sold as a slave for 20 shekels to Ishmaellite.
 
Having stated in 1 kings 6:1 that Solomon's reign was 480 years after the exile we can deduce that the nation of Israel's exodus was in 1440 BC. (scholars are in agreement about Solomon's reign)
 
In Judges 11:26  Jephthah tells the Ammonites that Israel was in the land for 300 years. (scholars accept that Jephthah had victory over the Ammonites and it took place around 1100 BC) So the Israelites would enter Canaan around 1400 BC so they would have left Egypt at 1440 BC.
 
The City of Ramses means born of God and this name used before the time of Pharaoh Ramses II. The name Ramses is the name of the Pharaoh that Joseph speaks to in Egypt hundreds of years before the reign of Ramses II. (Gen 47:11). the original name of the city was Rowaty then was later changed to Avaris.
Later Biblical writer updated the text when the name of the city was changed and rebuilt by Ramses II
 
the destruction levels in Canaanite Cites of Hazor and Jericho date to the 1400s. archaeological record also supports a gradual process of cities being conquered during that time as stated in the book of Joshua.
 
I have attached the links below which have bibliographies and more information about this subject.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a027.html
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/200...px#Article
You can also check out
 

Quote:As for stuff that's stolen...many mythologies have flood stories like Noah's, strong men like Samson, dying and rising gods like Jesus, much of the early Bible treats Jehovah as a wind and/or mountain god like those found in other early faiths...

could you give specific stories from where you claim the bible stole these stories.
 

Quote:There is no reason to twist the Bible if you're trying to rouse people to violence and/or atrocity. Plenty of the Bible can be used this way as written, like the parts about throwing rocks at gay people until they're dead and the parts about slaves being expected to obey their masters...speaking of which...

It doesn't say to stone gay people is says to stone a man if he lay with another man (lev 30:13). Just like it says that you should stone an adultery or a fornicator (lev 20:10, Deu 22:22-27).  All of these act in the eyes of God are sexual act out side of His proscribed boundaries of marriage and sex.  Laws that are carried over after the death and resurrection of Jesus apply to all of us. Stoning people for immoral acts are no longer the proscribed punishment according to the bible and if you are willing to read it as a whole you would be able to more easily come to that understanding.
 

Quote:that first paragraph entails what to do with Hebrew slaves after they've "served their time," and if they started a family while enslaved then the only way to keep his family is to give up his freedom forever. There are no instructions about freeing females or children, so it's to be presumed that only grown Hebrew men could be freed from slavery by this time limit. What a kind form of slavery this is.

 
There are more instruction in Deuteronomy 15:12-18
12 “If your fellow Hebrew, a man or woman, is sold to you and serves you six years, you must set him free in the seventh year.
 
So if the woman is a Hebrew she too will leave after her years are up. not just that
13 When you set him free, do not send him away empty-handed. 14 Give generously to him from your flock, your threshing floor, and your winepress. You are to give him whatever the Lord your God has blessed you with. 15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you; that is why I am giving you this command today.
 
They can always run away Deuteronomy 23:15-16
 “Do not return a slave to his master when he has escaped from his master to you. Let him live among you wherever he wants within your gates. Do not mistreat him.
 
Ex 21:7
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is not to leave as the male slaves do. 8 If she is displeasing to her master, who chose her for himself, then he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners because he has acted treacherously toward her. 9 Or if he chooses her for his son, he must deal with her according to the customary treatment of daughters. 10 If he takes an additional wife, he must not reduce the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she may leave free of charge, without any exchange of money.
 
So this type of sale was a rarity and usually happened when people were in extreme poverty (Neh 5:5).  If she was just a salve she could leave in 6 years (Deut 15:12) if she was to a 2nd wife she had the status of a wife (ex 21:10) If she was to be his son's wife she would be like a daughter. If the man didn't want to treat her in this manner he had to give her to someone who would take care of her or return her to her father without demanding any restitution. (ex 21:8-21:11)
 
Ex 21:20 “When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod, and the slave dies under his abuse, the owner must be punished.
 
So if the person has murdered his slave then he will be put to death .(ex:12) In the bible the person is still considered a person. Now lets look at verse 26 and 27
 
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave and destroys it, he must let the slave go free in compensation for his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his male or female slave, he must let the slave go free in compensation for his tooth.
 
So if the mater treats his slaves in to beat them with such that he busts his eye and knocks out his tooth the man get to be free. If you have beaten a man to the point that they are bed ridden then I believe this would indicate that that slave get to be free.
 
Now after the slave owner has beaten his slave so much that he is free and after he is free he dies it would be difficult at that time to tie the slave owner to the crime  so they wouldn't pursue any charges.

Quote:According to Christian doctrine it only takes one sin to land a person in hell, and it doesn't matter which sin it is. All offenses are equally grievous to Gaud. If you go to your grave without accepting Jesus and the ONLY biblical sin you committed was eating shellfish, guess what? Hell. Your Gaud is vengeful and petty in the extreme. Fuck that guy.

Again read the bible in it's entirety. As for the shell fish read Act 10:9-16. Also when you disobey God you are willingly believing a lie instead of the truth (Roman 1:18-32). Also God has made a way out of sin through Jesus Christ. He took our penalty and paid the price for our sin (Isa 53:9). You don't have to go to hell all you have to do is repent and accept Jesus as you Lord and savior. You give him your sinful life and receive the His righteousness.
 

Quote:So what you're saying is that the punishment should not fit the nature of the crime, but the nature of the being it was committed against? That's fucking stupid.

How would you define sin?
 

Quote:If you're really going to try to tell me that the Golden Rule originates with the Bible, piss off with that shit. The Golden Rule predates the Bible by at least a few hundred years, easily.

 
Matt 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."
 
If you looked at the end of the statement you will see that Jesus is saying that this statement is a summery of what we now call the old testament or as he stated the Law and the Prophets. So yes this idea wasn't new when Jesus stated it. Still, it does originate with God because He is truth and the originator of all Knowledge.
 
 

Quote:No, those things require brains, and brains are made of matter.

Thoughts are still not matter
 

Quote:Because he is non-material and the box is filled with material items.

How does that stop Him form affect things?
 

Quote:Nothing says today's standard is correct, but it is better than biblical standards for reasons I've already mentioned.

 
So you are just arbitrarily judging them since there is no authority behind your judgments. My standards are based on an authority, which is the Bible.
 

Quote:Ummm...more equal rights for women and minorities, less sexism, less slavery, less violence...are we really doing this right now?

 
Matt 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."
 
This is mainly what is going on in the United States of America

• Abortion is legalized murder. People claim that the baby is not human just like they said about my ancestors the American slaves. In America there are 1.21 million murders of babies each year.
  
• An estimated that 14,500 to 17,500 people are trafficked into the U.S. each year
  
• About 169,202,00 Murdered in the 20th Century due to democide more than any of the previous centuries combined.
  
• Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• Of females killed with a firearm, almost two-thirds were killed by their intimate partners. The number of females shot and killed by their husband or intimate partner was more than three times higher than the total number murdered by male strangers using all weapons combined in single victim/single offender incidents in 2002. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• 1,006,970 women and 370,990 men are stalked annually in the United States. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men: 78% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are women and 22% are men. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  

 
I going to leave it there but there is plenty more. We aren't better.

Ok, I'm gonna start trimming these down significantly because much of what you say is irrelevant, most of your questions are contrary and infantile (and could be answered with 10 seconds of googling), and these are getting too damn long to be worth my time.

(August 13, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: I do not understand how that is giving His creation a choice.  If you have a choice of wither to love Him or to Love Him that isn't choosing.
 
Also we were created in the image of God and He continually chooses to love us and if we are to be like Him we must have the ability to actually choose not live in a world without the pretense of choosing love.

Those wouldn't have to be the only two choices. An all-powerful, all-perfect being could create beings that legitimately have a choice of whether or not to love him and yet will still choose to love him every time. All-powerful means all-powerful, and there is nothing inherently illogical or contradictory about what I'm saying. A perfect, omnipotent being could create beings with the capacity to choose, give those beings a legitimate choice, and still wind up with beings that choose him every time.

Quote:how

We're seriously doing this right now?


The flood story is impossible because it would have killed all the land plants and all sea life, the carnivores would have made a species go extinct every time they ate something, the herbivores wouldn't have had anything to eat after getting off the boat, the animals and humans would have lacked the genetic diversity necessary to speciate, the boat would have filled with poop, the animals on the lower decks would have suffocated, the animals would have started killing and eating each other a matter of days into the flood, there isn't enough water on earth's surface or in the atmosphere to cover the entire surface...need I go on?

Quote:Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes that the price of 20 shekels is a price of a slave in the near east in about the 18th century BC. Gen 37:28 says that Joseph was sold as a slave for 20 shekels to Ishmaellite.
 
Having stated in 1 kings 6:1 that Solomon's reign was 480 years after the exile we can deduce that the nation of Israel's exodus was in 1440 BC. (scholars are in agreement about Solomon's reign)
 
In Judges 11:26  Jephthah tells the Ammonites that Israel was in the land for 300 years. (scholars accept that Jephthah had victory over the Ammonites and it took place around 1100 BC) So the Israelites would enter Canaan around 1400 BC so they would have left Egypt at 1440 BC.
 
The City of Ramses means born of God and this name used before the time of Pharaoh Ramses II. The name Ramses is the name of the Pharaoh that Joseph speaks to in Egypt hundreds of years before the reign of Ramses II. (Gen 47:11). the original name of the city was Rowaty then was later changed to Avaris.
Later Biblical writer updated the text when the name of the city was changed and rebuilt by Ramses II
 
the destruction levels in Canaanite Cites of Hazor and Jericho date to the 1400s. archaeological record also supports a gradual process of cities being conquered during that time as stated in the book of Joshua.
 
I have attached the links below which have bibliographies and more information about this subject.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a027.html
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/200...px#Article
You can also check out

Your apologist propaganda is not impressive to me. Mainstream scholarship posits that the Jewish enslavement and Exodus did not happen, and they have sound archaeological reasons for believing this. Find me a non-Christian, non-Jewish source that says otherwise.

Quote:could you give specific stories from where you claim the bible stole these stories.

Could you learn to use google?


The story of Gilgamesh predates the biblical creation and flood stories and shares elements of both.


The Zoroastrian god, Avesta, is said to have created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh, and the names of the people he created were Adama and Eva.


According to scholars, Zoroastrians were probably also the first to believe in Angels, Satan, demons, and the ongoing battle between good and evil.


The Book of the Dead and Hamurabi's Code both share elements with the Ten Commandments, which they predate. Hamurabi's Code is also one of the oldest iterations of the Golden Rule.


Those are just a few examples.

 

Quote:It doesn't say to stone gay people is says to stone a man if he lay with another man (lev 30:13).

The asininity of this statement makes me sorry for the human race.

Quote:There are more instruction in Deuteronomy 15:12-18
12 “If your fellow Hebrew, a man or woman, is sold to you and serves you six years, you must set him free in the seventh year.
 
So if the woman is a Hebrew she too will leave after her years are up. not just that
13 When you set him free, do not send him away empty-handed. 14 Give generously to him from your flock, your threshing floor, and your winepress. You are to give him whatever the Lord your God has blessed you with. 15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you; that is why I am giving you this command today.

Ah, a defender of biblical slavery. How refershing...  


Notice that this only applies to Hebrew slaves. Not all Hebrew-owned slaves were Hebrew.

 

Quote:They can always run away Deuteronomy 23:15-16
 “Do not return a slave to his master when he has escaped from his master to you. Let him live among you wherever he wants within your gates. Do not mistreat him.

Sure...if your neighbor's slave runs away and winds up on your property, don't return him...keep him for yourself. How convenient.

 

Quote:Ex 21:7
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is not to leave as the male slaves do. 8 If she is displeasing to her master, who chose her for himself, then he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners because he has acted treacherously toward her. 9 Or if he chooses her for his son, he must deal with her according to the customary treatment of daughters. 10 If he takes an additional wife, he must not reduce the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she may leave free of charge, without any exchange of money.
 
So this type of sale was a rarity and usually happened when people were in extreme poverty (Neh 5:5).  If she was just a salve she could leave in 6 years (Deut 15:12) if she was to a 2nd wife she had the status of a wife (ex 21:10) If she was to be his son's wife she would be like a daughter. If the man didn't want to treat her in this manner he had to give her to someone who would take care of her or return her to her father without demanding any restitution. (ex 21:8-21:11)

The fact that you attempt to make any defense of this passage at all is kind of disgusting, honestly. It makes regulations for (read: condones) selling one's daughter into sexual slavery, and getting rid of her or "giving her back" if she's not pleasing to her husband/master. It treats women like chattel and is a prime example of why biblical morality is outdated and primitive.

 

Quote:Ex 21:20 “When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod, and the slave dies under his abuse, the owner must be punished.

Unless he dies of his wounds more than a day or two later.

 

Quote:26 “When a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave and destroys it, he must let the slave go free in compensation for his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his male or female slave, he must let the slave go free in compensation for his tooth.
 
So if the mater treats his slaves in to beat them with such that he busts his eye and knocks out his tooth the man get to be free. If you have beaten a man to the point that they are bed ridden then I believe this would indicate that that slave get to be free.

You might believe that, but that's not what the text says. It says they only get to go free if you knock their eyes or teeth out. Be careful when you're beating those slaves, now.

Quote:Again read the bible in it's entirety. As for the shell fish read Act 10:9-16. Also when you disobey God you are willingly believing a lie instead of the truth (Roman 1:18-32). Also God has made a way out of sin through Jesus Christ. He took our penalty and paid the price for our sin (Isa 53:9). You don't have to go to hell all you have to do is repent and accept Jesus as you Lord and savior. You give him your sinful life and receive the His righteousness.

I have read the Bible in its entirety, probably more times than you have. I also used to be a lot better at the mental gymnastics than you are.

Quote:How would you define sin?

 

I wouldn't. The Bible does, though, and I wholeheartedly disagree with probably nine tenths of the Bible's definition. My morality is informed by empathy toward suffering, not some arbitrary list of rules.

Quote:Matt 7:12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."
 
If you looked at the end of the statement you will see that Jesus is saying that this statement is a summery of what we now call the old testament or as he stated the Law and the Prophets. So yes this idea wasn't new when Jesus stated it. Still, it does originate with God because He is truth and the originator of all Knowledge.

The Golden Rule predates Old Testament writings by at least a few hundred years. It was not a new concept when the Old Testament was written, either.

Quote:Thoughts are still not matter

They depend on matter to exist because they depend on brains, you contrary little shit.

Quote:

• Abortion is legalized murder. People claim that the baby is not human just like they said about my ancestors the American slaves. In America there are 1.21 million murders of babies each year.
  
• An estimated that 14,500 to 17,500 people are trafficked into the U.S. each year
  
• About 169,202,00 Murdered in the 20th Century due to democide more than any of the previous centuries combined.
  
• Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• Of females killed with a firearm, almost two-thirds were killed by their intimate partners. The number of females shot and killed by their husband or intimate partner was more than three times higher than the total number murdered by male strangers using all weapons combined in single victim/single offender incidents in 2002. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• 1,006,970 women and 370,990 men are stalked annually in the United States. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  
• Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men: 78% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are women and 22% are men. - See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domest...prevalence
  

 
I going to leave it there but there is plenty more. We aren't better.

We're just going to have to fundamentally disagree one whether Abortion is murder. For one thing, the health and wellbeing of extant humans is more valuable to me than those of a potential human at virtually any stage of development leading up to birth, so medically essential abortions are a moral no-brainer for me regardless of what trimester they're in; the rights of the mother always outweigh the rights of the fetus. As for nonessential abortions, those are generally limited to first trimester pregnancies where the zygote has virtually no human systems and certainly has not developed anything like a consciousness. Abortion is not murder, zygotes are not babies, and fetuses are only sort of babies and shouldn't really have any rights as far as I'm concerned.

As for the rest of that, sure, I'll grant that the raw numbers for violence might seem higher, but world populations are also higher than they used to be. Proportionally speaking, war, murder, and other violence has been declining for a long time and is probably lower than it's ever been. Yes, we are getting better, and yes, those improvements are inversely proportional to global religiosity.

Quote:Ok, I'm gonna start trimming these down significantly because much of what you say is irrelevant, most of your questions are contrary and infantile (and could be answered with 10 seconds of googling), and these are getting too damn long to be worth my time.

1) you assume I ask because I am ignorant of your arguments 2) Google is not all knowing.

Quote:Those wouldn't have to be the only two choices. An all-powerful, all-perfect being could create beings that legitimately have a choice of whether or not to love him and yet will still choose to love him every time. All-powerful means all-powerful, and there is nothing inherently illogical or contradictory about what I'm saying. A perfect, omnipotent being could create beings with the capacity to choose, give those beings a legitimate choice, and still wind up with beings that choose him every time.

How wouldn't that be the the choice if in the end the only place you could end up is "loving" God?

Quote:The flood story is impossible because it would have killed all the land plants and all sea life, the carnivores would have made a species go extinct every time they ate something, the herbivores wouldn't have had anything to eat after getting off the boat, the animals and humans would have lacked the genetic diversity necessary to speciate, the boat would have filled with poop, the animals on the lower decks would have suffocated, the animals would have started killing and eating each other a matter of days into the flood, there isn't enough water on earth's surface or in the atmosphere to cover the entire surface...need I go on?

1) the Bible is not a scientific book and God doesn't have to tell you how it happened

Marine life
"Many aquatic creatures were killed in the Flood because of the turbidity of the water and changes in salinities and temperatures. Indeed, the geologic record testifies to the massive destruction of marine life, with shallow-water marine invertebrates alone accounting for an estimated 95 percent by number of the fossil record.

if the hybridization within many fish kinds today suggests that the ability to tolerate and adjust to large changes in water salinity and turbidity was probably present in most fish at the time of and during the global Flood, then they definitely had the ability to cope with the wide fluctuations and ranges of temperatures and turbidities of the Flood waters. Indeed, there are more species of fish today than any other group of vertebrates, which possibly attests to their ability to hybridize and diversify."
https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/h...sis-flood/

Plant life
"First, it is possible that the water had salinity similar to that of freshwater before the Flood. Second, it is possible there was a lower salt concentration, similar to brackish water (0.5-30 ppt), during most of the Flood, and that the current salinity is a result of floodwater runoff from the continents, volcanism, and current deposition from rain and rivers. It is not likely the salinity was roughly the same during the inundation stages of the Flood as it is now. But even if it was, it would still not have been a problem for plants to survive. The main point is that skeptics cannot arbitrarily assume the floodwater salinity, since they were not there to measure it.

Another assumption skeptics make is that the species we have today are the same as at the time of the Flood. Though some species were probably around then, like the Wollemi Pine, it is safe to assume that most species around today are not exactly the same as what was around before the Flood 4,400 years ago. Why is this significant? One big reason is that plants today have undergone 4,400 years of speciation, mutations, and genetic deterioration. This must mean some of the genetic information has been lost. the fact is that those same species could have been more genetically and physically robust, and thus better able to withstand extreme conditions than modern plants, including up to nine months immersed in or floating on open floodwaters!

there are tree and plant species that actually thrive in flood-like conditions or even saltwater. For example, mangroves live primarily along tropical coastlines. Not to mention the flowering plants and trees that flourish in swamplands. Some trees that live in swamplands include (but are not limited to) the white cedar, eastern hemlock, loblolly pine, black spruce, red maple, elm, pin oak, and birch. Knowing that some trees withstand saturating water conditions makes it difficult to say “plants could not have survived the Flood” because those trees are literally thriving in such conditions."

read more at https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/h...the-flood/

The Animals on the ark

"most animals that eat only live prey in nature necessarily require moving prey in captivity. (For the few that do, it would not have been difficult to provide a rudimentary live-animal feeder.)

Even the most “fussy” animal kinds today contain individual representatives that can depart from the foods their kind normally eats in nature. For example, although most koalas eat nothing but fresh eucalyptus leaves, there are individual koalas that will subsist on dried eucalyptus leaves. Likewise, some individual pandas will accept dried bamboo stalks. "

Breathing
"The Bible is not specific as to the kind and size of window on the ark. It is reasonable to believe that one relatively small window would have adequately ventilated the ark. Of course, if there were a window running along the top center section, which the biblical description allows, all occupants would be even more comfortable. It is also interesting to note that the convective movement of air, driven by temperature differences between the warm-blooded animals and the cold interior surfaces, would have been significant enough to drive the flow of air. Plus, wind blowing into the window would have enhanced the ventilation further."

Did they eat each other after the got off
"The post-Flood world must have had plenty of rotting corpses of various animals that were not buried in the Flood sediments. Experience has shown that most carnivores prefer to eat carrion than to kill live animals for food. Also, the Flood must have left behind many residual pools of water and marine life. As these waters retreated or dried up, fish and other marine animals were stranded in lakes, ponds, and streams on land. This could also have served as food for the ark-released carnivores. In fact, experience shows that many normally non–fish-eating carnivores, such as lions, will eat fish if it is available, and do so in preference to hunting their usual prey. "

the Waste
"One possibility would be to allow the waste to accumulate below the animals, much as we see in rustic henhouses. In this regard, there could have been slatted floors, and animals could have trampled their waste into the pits below. Small animals, such as birds, could have multiple levels in their enclosures, and waste could have simply accumulated at the bottom of each.
The danger of toxic or explosive manure gases, such as methane, would be alleviated by the constant movement of the ark, which would have allowed manure gases to be constantly released. Second, methane, which is half the density of air, would quickly find its way out of the window of the ark. There is no reason to believe that the levels of these gases within the ark would have remotely approached hazardous levels.
Alternatively, sloped floors in animal enclosures would have allowed the waste to flow into large central gutters and then into collection pits, allowing gravity to do most of the work. Noah’s family could have then dumped this overboard without an excessive expenditure of manpower.
The problem of manure odor may, at first thought, seem insurmountable. But we must remember that throughout most of human history, humans lived together with their farm animals. Barns, separate from human living quarters, are a relatively recent development.
While the voyage of the ark may not have been comfortable or easy, it was certainly doable, even under such unprecedented circumstances. "

You can read more at https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/h...-for-them/

not enough water
Genesis 7:11–12In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights

"The Bible tells us that water came from two sources: below the earth and above the earth. Evidently, the source for water below the ground was in great subterranean pools, or “fountains” of fresh water, which were broken open by volcanic and seismic (earthquake) activity"

read more at https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/g...ark-flood/

Quote:Your apologist propaganda is not impressive to me. Mainstream scholarship posits that the Jewish enslavement and Exodus did not happen, and they have sound archaeological reasons for believing this. Find me a non-Christian, non-Jewish source that says otherwise.

If that is the case then you can't use sources that have the same ideologies that you have. If you are going to find me sources against the slavery of the Jews  then they need to have my ideology or I can say the same thing you just claimed. You have a double standard against this information and that will not excuse you.

Quote:Could you learn to use google?


The story of Gilgamesh predates the biblical creation and flood stories and shares elements of both.


The Zoroastrian god, Avesta, is said to have created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh, and the names of the people he created were Adama and Eva.


According to scholars, Zoroastrians were probably also the first to believe in Angels, Satan, demons, and the ongoing battle between good and evil.


The Book of the Dead and Hamurabi's Code both share elements with the Ten Commandments, which they predate. Hamurabi's Code is also one of the oldest iterations of the Golden Rule.


Those are just a few examples.

Again you assume I don't know what you are talking about I just want you to specifically name them.
Couldn't it be possible that they share similarities because there was actually a Biblical flood and their ancestors passed down similar stories to their children.

Zoroastrianism
Similarities don't prove that the bible borrowed from this religion. There are far more dissimilar and contradictory view between Zoroastrianism and Christianity than similarities.
The god in Zoroatrianism is not the same as the God in the Bible. God is all powerful and omnipotent where as the God in Zoroastrianism is not all powerful. In Zoro. you have to work to be made right with the God. In Christianity there is nothing you can do but accept the gift of salvation, through the death and resurrection of Christ, to be made right with God. In Christianity Satan is not the opposite of God but a created being of God that is and will continue to be defeated by God. The god of Zoro. is of equal strength of his nemesis Angra Mainyu.
It is not OK to be dealing with occult practices as a Christian unlike Zoro

You know you can say that Christianity borrows from Judaism because we believe that the God that set up Judaism is God. We look at the books written by the Jews and for the Jews and see them as the holy words of God. Not only that we happily agree that we get our bases for our religion from their religion. You don't see that with Judaism or Christianity when it come to Zoroastrianism. All you have done is found some similarities in a religion and then made a wild leap that Christianity and Judaism has borrowed from this religion.

Again similarities do not mean that the 10 commandments were written from it. There are other codes just like this one  written before these laws were written. Cuneiform laws written 2350B.B the Code of Urukagina 2380 B.C. the Code of Ur-Nammu 2050 B.C. ect. All this shows it that people need laws because we are sinful. The Mosaic law goes further and talks about sin and your responsibility to God and not just man.

In his book Highlights of Archaeology in Bible Lands, Fred Wight writes, “The Mosaic Law gives strong emphasis to the recognition of sin as being the cause of the downfall of a nation. Such a thought is entirely lacking in Hammurabi’s Code. . . . The great fundamental principle of the laws of God in the Hebrew Bible may be summed up in the words: ‘Be ye holy, for I am holy’ [Leviticus 11:45]. Such a principle as this was utterly unknown to the Babylonians as seen in their law code.”

The book of the dead is for those who are dead to come before the gods and say what they haven't done. The commandments are for the living because it was to demonstrate the nature of God and show that we are not able to match up with God (among other things). There are also more than 10 commandments in the bible.

Quote:Sure...if your neighbor's slave runs away and winds up on your property, don't return him...keep him for yourself. How convenient.

you are twisting the text for your own convenience

Quote:The fact that you attempt to make any defense of this passage at all is kind of disgusting, honestly. It makes regulations for (read: condones) selling one's daughter into sexual slavery, and getting rid of her or "giving her back" if she's not pleasing to her husband/master. It treats women like chattel and is a prime example of why biblical morality is outdated and primitive.

I don't need to defend God's word He will do that Himself. There is nothing that I could say that would make you happy anyway because you are set on not believing God even though you have not bases for judging these people morals system since as you say morals are subjective. Also since in your world view we are just evolved form single cell organism what is the big deal anyway? It only becomes an issue when people have intrinsic worth which you have flatly denied. If you would also see in Matt 19:7-9 there are many laws in the old testament due to the hardness of mans heart God puts up with. This is one of those kinds of laws.

Quote:They depend on matter to exist because they depend on brains, you contrary little shit.

To get back to the idea that we were discussing. If God created the universe why do you think you would find Him being a part of it or exactly like the thing he made. I studied art and I am outside of my work and since I would mostly in 2D You would not find me in it. I can manipulate it but to assume that I could only exist inside of my art and be just as my art is would be absurd. So why is it impossible to apply the same logic to God.

Finally You should repent and give you life over to God. You are going up against the God of all creation and you are under the assumption that your lies will make that reality change.  God has made a way for you to come into a loving and satisfying relationship with Him because He loves you. He died for you and everyone else reading this. He truly wants you to know this. He has paid a high price for you to be made right with Him. Of course it is your choice. He will not force you to believe but He will remove every obstacle in order to allow you to come into a right relationship with Him. In reality he doesn't want to send you to Hell, that is why Jesus came, but in order to correct everything and make it right He must remove all evil. If you choose to remain in your sin then He will remove you as well.

Answers in genesis.

LAWL. Indoctrained theist husks are always so cray. Amusing that anyone with a functioning brain would take claims about the arc seriously. You hear that ricky or whatever your name is? Keep on reaching for that rainbow.

That's enough internet for one day folks. See you later!

You're citing "Answers in Genesis" as a credible source?

Destroy your computer and move into a mud hut, please. I think we're done here.

Regarding Noah's flood and the ark story: It's pure BS since the Middle East was never flooded as described.

Regarding animals on ancient boats: It happened all of the time during the Roman period. Remember Hannibal? He moved elephants from Africa to Italy by boats. And the Romans had constant streams of assorted African animals coming into Italy by ship on regular schedules for the arenas. People in Pompeii ate giraffes. Think about where giraffes are found in Africa and the system used to move them to Italy.

(August 20, 2015 at 4:12 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Regarding Noah's flood and the ark story:  It's pure BS since the Middle East was never flooded as described.  

Regarding animals on ancient boats:  It happened all of the time during the Roman period.  Remember Hannibal?  He moved elephants from Africa  to Italy by boats.  And the Romans had constant streams of assorted African animals coming into Italy by ship on regular schedules for the arenas.  People in Pompeii ate giraffes.  Think about where giraffes are found in Africa and the system used to move them to Italy.

You know that the book of Genesis is older than Hannibal right. Do you have documentation of where the flood story was added to the text?

(August 17, 2015 at 9:51 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: You're citing "Answers in Genesis" as a credible source?

Destroy your computer and move into a mud hut, please. I think we're done here.

What would you need to believe that God inspired the books of the bible?