(August 20, 2015 at 12:37 am)Cephus Wrote: That's not a movement, that's something that wasn't started by atheists, it's something that was "identified" by theists, just because atheists were not being forced to remain silent about their lack of beliefs.  There are no stated goals to this supposed movement.  It's just atheists who refuse to be shut up by the religious.

The term, New Atheism, might have started out like that but some atheists adopted it. This is on The Atheist Scholar website.

Atheist Activism

Quote:The 21st Century has seen the rise of the New Atheism, which has had an energizing and beneficial effect on the atheist community, not only on morale, but on the numbers of new members to swell our numbers and influence.

The New Atheists believe that scientific discovery has advanced so greatly, that it is now time to not only champion atheism, but to critique religion. They do not feel that religion should be accommodated, but rather criticized for its mistakes, bigotry and immoral history down through the ages.

I think New Atheism works like Tories or Suffragettes, it was supposed to be an insult but it was accepted by the insulted group. It is a movement as much as any other ideological movement in society. It isn't just people gathering to proclaim they don't believe in god, but organized institutions with leaders who give lectures, people who buy atheist t shirts and keep posting pictures of awesome atheist books on twitter and facebook, people who go to skeptics conference, watch youtube videos on atheism, etc - If this isn't a movement, then almost nothing can possibly be - As long as there's a group of people with a common goal, institutions and guidance mechanisms like books and lectures, it is a movement. Cognitive dissonance like "other people are a movement but we can't possibly be because we are special!" is special pleading and shouldn't be accepted.

No, the point is not every atheists is part of a movement.

I guess he thinks the "label" will give people preconceived notions about him, which could make him less effective at reaching people for science.


Sure. Whatever. What he's failing to realize is that "atheist" isn't a label so much as a word...with a definition. Because Tyson clearly lacks belief in any gods, he meets the definition of the word whether he likes it as a label or not.

(August 20, 2015 at 10:37 am)Pizza Wrote: No, the point is not every atheists is part of a movement.

Correct, I Agree - But some people say there isn't a movement at all

(August 20, 2015 at 1:40 am)Shuffle Wrote:

(August 20, 2015 at 12:37 am)Cephus Wrote: That's not a movement, that's something that wasn't started by atheists, it's something that was "identified" by theists, just because atheists were not being forced to remain silent about their lack of beliefs.  There are no stated goals to this supposed movement.  It's just atheists who refuse to be shut up by the religious.

Try again.

Did you even open the link?! It states the goals of the movement in the first paragraph!

It's a wikipedia article that anyone can say anything they want in.  I have never met an atheist who identified as a "new atheist", in fact, the whole idea is widely decried amongst most atheists.

(August 20, 2015 at 9:48 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(August 20, 2015 at 12:37 am)Cephus Wrote: That's not a movement, that's something that wasn't started by atheists, it's something that was "identified" by theists, just because atheists were not being forced to remain silent about their lack of beliefs.  There are no stated goals to this supposed movement.  It's just atheists who refuse to be shut up by the religious.

The term, New Atheism, might have started out like that but some atheists adopted it. This is on The Atheist Scholar website.

Atheist Activism

Quote:The 21st Century has seen the rise of the New Atheism, which has had an energizing and beneficial effect on the atheist community, not only on morale, but on the numbers of new members to swell our numbers and influence.

The New Atheists believe that scientific discovery has advanced so greatly, that it is now time to not only champion atheism, but to critique religion.  They do not feel that religion should be accommodated, but rather criticized for its mistakes, bigotry and immoral history down through the ages.

But how many people does that actually represent?  One guy's opinion?  I'm still looking for evidence that a large number of atheists are directly represented by that term and they all have a single demonstrable goal, something they are hoping to attain through their actions.  Sorry, not seeing it.

(August 20, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Cephus Wrote: But how many people does that actually represent?  One guy's opinion?  I'm still looking for evidence that a large number of atheists are directly represented by that term and they all have a single demonstrable goal, something they are hoping to attain through their actions.  Sorry, not seeing it.

I decided to google for Atheist activism.  From the American Atheists website - Atheist Activism

Quote:Activism and education are, first and foremost, about raising the profile of atheism and normalizing atheism in the public discourse. With our community projects, billboard campaigns, and educational resources, we encourage the millions of atheists who are "in the closet" to come out as atheists and be proud of embracing reality.

Freedom From Religion Foundation

Quote:Won’t you join FFRF in our critical work to promote nontheism and defend the constitutional separation between religion and government? With more than 22,500 members, the nonprofit FFRF works as an effective state/church watchdog and voice for freethought (atheism, agnosticism, skepticism).

Here are some Freedom From Religion Foundation Campaigns.

I found this on the Richard Dawkins Foundation website - Help Us Keep Pressure on The Boy Scouts Until They Lift Their Ban on Atheists!

Quote:Last month, the Boy Scouts of America voted to eliminate their ban on gay scout leaders. This is of course a welcome change, but the Boy Scouts still ban atheists from their ranks. We want this ban to end, and we want you to help us!

There's a lot more out there. Obviously not all atheists are into campaigns but the ones who are share similar goals.

PS: Another page on the RD Foundation website - What We Do

Quote:The mission of the Richard Dawkins Foundation is to promote scientific literacy and a secular worldview. Some might see this as two distinct missions: 1) Teaching the value of science, and 2) Advancing secularism.

(August 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(August 20, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Cephus Wrote: But how many people does that actually represent?  One guy's opinion?  I'm still looking for evidence that a large number of atheists are directly represented by that term and they all have a single demonstrable goal, something they are hoping to attain through their actions.  Sorry, not seeing it.

I decided to google for Atheist activism.  From the American Atheists website - Atheist Activism

Quote:Activism and education are, first and foremost, about raising the profile of atheism and normalizing atheism in the public discourse. With our community projects, billboard campaigns, and educational resources, we encourage the millions of atheists who are "in the closet" to come out as atheists and be proud of embracing reality.

Freedom From Religion Foundation

Quote:Won’t you join FFRF in our critical work to promote nontheism and defend the constitutional separation between religion and government? With more than 22,500 members, the nonprofit FFRF works as an effective state/church watchdog and voice for freethought (atheism, agnosticism, skepticism).

Here are some Freedom From Religion Foundation Campaigns.

I found this on the Richard Dawkins Foundation website - Help Us Keep Pressure on The Boy Scouts Until They Lift Their Ban on Atheists!

Quote:Last month, the Boy Scouts of America voted to eliminate their ban on gay scout leaders. This is of course a welcome change, but the Boy Scouts still ban atheists from their ranks. We want this ban to end, and we want you to help us!

There's a lot more out there. Obviously not all atheists are into campaigns but the ones who are share similar goals.

PS: Another page on the RD Foundation website - What We Do

Quote:The mission of the Richard Dawkins Foundation is to promote scientific literacy and a secular worldview. Some might see this as two distinct missions: 1) Teaching the value of science, and 2) Advancing secularism.

Good for them. Those are all individual little groups, not indicative of atheism as a whole.  I don't belong to any of those groups.

Fine Cephus, can I then argue that because most Christians in Europe don't go to church except for weddings and funerals therefore the Church isn't Christianity?

You're just skipping questions and giving incoherent answers, no one is saying that most atheists are a part of those groups, but those aren't fringe insignificant institutions but they have some degree of influence because of supporters, etc. No one is saying that is indicative of what atheism is, but it is indicative that atheists can organize institutionally as well, even if there isn't a bible you can make shit up as you go along