(August 27, 2015 at 12:47 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 3:54 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Jesus said that he had been sent to just the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  He told his disciples to avoid Samaritans and Gentiles.  He never preached to the Gentiles.  So unless you are a Jew it seems that you might be betting on the wrong zombie.

You should not interpret our Bible. I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

You should read your favorite ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale.  It's filled with hateful and evil things.  

Anything you post on this forum is subject to critical analysis so if you have tender feelings you may want to join another forum or grow a thicker hide.  You can alway put me on ignore but I will still comment on your posts if I so desire.

(August 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 5:49 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: That sounds good but then Jesus says that he's going to toss everyone who doesn't believe him into the lake of fire.  He's not loving or forgiving.

The belief is that if you turn away from love/goodness (aka God), there is no where left to go except the only place where those things are not present. God is not present in Hell, and since we believe God is love/goodness, those things are not present in Hell and that's why Hell is so awful. Of course, if you are truly sorry, meaning if you don't reject those things, of course you will be forgiven.

The biblical God routinely slaughtered people just because they didn't worship him.  It didn't matter if they were good people without any blemishes.  He wanted worship even if the people doing the worshipping were the scum of the Earth.  Jesus said that he will burn all who don't believe in him.  It doesn't matter if they are good people.  An interesting thing in popular culture is the movies that show murderous gangsters going to church.  God & Jesus love that.

(August 27, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The belief is that if you turn away from love/goodness (aka God), there is no where left to go except the only place where those things are not present. God is not present in Hell, and since we believe God is love/goodness, those things are not present in Hell and that's why Hell is so awful. Of course, if you are truly sorry, meaning if you don't reject those things, of course you will be forgiven.

The biblical God routinely slaughtered people just because they didn't worship him.  It didn't matter if they were good people without any blemishes.  He wanted worship even if the people doing the worshipping were the scum of the Earth.  Jesus said that he will burn all who don't believe in him.  It doesn't matter if they are good people.  An interesting thing in popular culture is the movies that show murderous gangsters going to church.  God & Jesus love that.

My bold. I don't think this is the "God" most Christians believe in. When discerning what God is like, we look mostly to Jesus, His teachings, and the way He lived His life.

(August 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The belief is that if you turn away from love/goodness (aka God), there is no where left to go except the only place where those things are not present. God is not present in Hell, and since we believe God is love/goodness, those things are not present in Hell and that's why Hell is so awful. Of course, if you are truly sorry, meaning if you don't reject those things, of course you will be forgiven.

But even that's relatively new. When I was a child, back in the 60ies and early 70ies, the talk of the town was still the literal fire and brimstone hell. At least that's what the priests tried to make us believe. So doctrines go with the time. The first time I heard your definition is probably the mid to late 70ies. About the same time, by the way, they started to introduce jazz masses.

(August 27, 2015 at 7:06 pm)abaris Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The belief is that if you turn away from love/goodness (aka God), there is no where left to go except the only place where those things are not present. God is not present in Hell, and since we believe God is love/goodness, those things are not present in Hell and that's why Hell is so awful. Of course, if you are truly sorry, meaning if you don't reject those things, of course you will be forgiven.

But even that's relatively new. When I was a child, back in the 60ies and early 70ies, the talk of the town was still the literal fire and brimstone hell. At least that's what the priests tried to make us believe. So doctrines go with the time. The first time I heard your definition is probably the mid to late 70ies. About the same time, by the way, they started to introduce jazz masses.

Our understanding of Hell evolves with time. Of course, none of this is or ever was doctrinal truth, since we can't know for sure what Hell is like. But more and more theologians are explaining Hell more as a state of being than an actual, physical "place" with fire and little guys running around with pitch forks lol.

(August 27, 2015 at 7:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Our understanding of Hell evolves with time. Of course, none of this is or ever was doctrinal truth, since we can't know for sure what Hell is like. But more and more theologians are explaining Hell more as a state of being than an actual, physical "place" with fire and little guys running around with pitch forks lol.

My point is, they react to pop culture. They have a very good sense of what isn't popular anymore and so they change it. That wasn't an evolvement over time, that was a rather sudden change. I'm 52 and for the first 12 years of my life or so, they preached fire and brimstone. Then, all over sudden, they changed their tune. It was the same pope, so not a different regime either. It was Paul VI during the whole period of time.

(August 27, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The biblical God routinely slaughtered people just because they didn't worship him.  It didn't matter if they were good people without any blemishes.  He wanted worship even if the people doing the worshipping were the scum of the Earth.  Jesus said that he will burn all who don't believe in him.  It doesn't matter if they are good people.  An interesting thing in popular culture is the movies that show murderous gangsters going to church.  God & Jesus love that.

My bold. I don't think this is the "God" most Christians believe in. When discerning what God is like, we look mostly to Jesus, His teachings, and the way He lived His life.

The god your church worships has these acts attributed to him ... perhaps that's why y'all ain't sola scriptiura?

I mean, I'd hate to have to defend that stuff too, I get it.

We're touching upon "No True Scotsman" here.

(August 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 4:29 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: GGovernment: What is sin?
Church: What do you want it to be?

What gets me is when Christians claim that without religion we would have no moral absolutes.

Excuse me?

I believe moral absolutes exist in spite of religion.  Religion (church) skews the morals to fit their denominational beliefs.

To me, sin is simply a violation of God's purpose.  But then that becomes subjective as well because it begs the question of what is God's purpose.

Man, next thing I know somebody is going to come in here and say they don't believe in god but they're still Christian.
que sera seera and all that.

(August 27, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold. I don't think this is the "God" most Christians believe in.

God is never changing, correct? If he was the monster in the OT, then the NT does not redeem him.

(August 27, 2015 at 8:27 pm)Kitan Wrote:

(August 27, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold. I don't think this is the "God" most Christians believe in.

God is never changing, correct?  If he was the monster in the OT, then the NT does not redeem him.

I agree that God does not change. My understanding/belief is that we were confused as to what God was really like during the times that the OT were written. And so Jesus came to set the record straight. That's partially why it was so hard for the people of that time to accept Jesus as the Messiah... because He was different from the OT God they believed in.