(September 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Just FYI

Drich quoted "Jesus said "don't muzzle the ox while treading out the grain."



Deuteronomy 25:4
1 Timothy 5:18
1 Corinthians 9:9

That's OT and Paul.  It's not in the Gospels.  Jesus didn't say it.

ooppss

(September 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 3, 2015 at 11:44 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Hypothetical here.  I'm sure some don't want to answer with anything other than "That would never happen,"  I'll get to that in a moment.

Say that some evidence surfaced that strongly suggested that Jesus never existed.  Evidence that was so strong that even many Apologetics accept it.  The Historical Jesus didn't exist, and most historians accepted that as a fact.

What would you do?

Would you ignore the evidence?

I unlike most of you, do not like others doing my thinking for me. I don't take an expert at his word, simply because he is deemed an 'expert.' An 'expert is so because generally speaking, they make their living doing what they do, and can be swayed with the right motivation. I would ask to the 'evidence' and make my own conclusions.

I would also have a lot of questions as in:

What does the evidence of someone not existing look like?

Any testimony can be dismissed, or cancled out by contrary testimony.

The lack of records would only be valid if ALL records of that time were accounted for.

So Im logically at a loss at how one can establish how a specific indivisual in the sea of human History can be proven to never existed. At the very best all that can be said is this person existence has not been confirmed. And if we are talking about Christ, then everyone else of that time frame is also suspect, because their is more data on Him and anyone of that period.

If by 'data' you mean;
"Erm... well... Jerusalem exists!" 

BS, Verona exists, there's more evidence for the Capulets than any of the characters in the Jewish fantasy.

(September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am)Drich Wrote: Dreams and empowerment is how God throughout the NT works.

Not to mention I only say 'dream' because I went to sleep in my bed and when the experience was over I woke up in the same place. Everything else about that experience plays out like any other waking memory. I've never had a 'dream' experience like this one.

I dream all sorts of weird crap, how on earth do you equate dreams with a message from god. Is he that impotent that his only way to send a message is through dreams that can't be verified by a third party?

Can you tell us some detail of this dream, you must have good recollection of such a life changing event. What form did the messenger take and what exactly was the basis of the message?

You'll be telling us you've seen his face in the bottom of your coffee cup next.

Quote:Dreams and empowerment is how God throughout the NT works.

Well, isn't that special drippy.  What an inept fucker your god is.

(September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: So no actual 'witnessing' of God, except in a dream?

Dreams and empowerment is how God throughout the NT works.

And you know this BECAUSE GOD. Not circular at all. You've fallen for confirmation bias, Drich.

(September 9, 2015 at 9:45 am)Drich Wrote: It seems your the one confused. I clearly stated that if my knowledge of God was solely based on the tangable evidence and someone removed the tangable evidence then my belief would change. However since the tangable/written word is only apart of my belief system any change to the written word would not change what I have confirmed through personal experience.

Please don't remove this "tangable" evidence. Me likey.

(September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am)Drich Wrote:

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(September 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: So no actual 'witnessing' of God, except in a dream?

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Quote:Dreams and empowerment is how God throughout the NT works.

Even the Bible says that a person shouldn't believe in dreams.

Sirach 34:1 CEB)
[ On dreams ] Senseless people have empty and false hopes, and dreams excite fools.

Sirach 34:2 (CEB)
Those who pay attention to dreams are just like people who grasp at a shadow or pursue the wind.

Sirach 34:5 (CEB)
Divinations, omens, and dreams are empty. The mind has fantasies, just like a woman in labor does.

Sirach 34:7 (CEB)
Dreams have misled many, and those who have placed hope in them have fallen.

(September 10, 2015 at 6:25 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am)Drich Wrote:

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Not to mention I only say 'dream' because I went to sleep in my bed and when the experience was over I woke up in the same place. Everything else about that experience plays out like any other waking memory. I've never had a 'dream' experience like this one.

And, again my experience is not 'proof' for you nor was it meant to be. It was for me. God however offers you exactly what you need to establish and maintain faith as well. Who knows if your lucky God will send you to Hell too!!

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Even the Bible says that a person shouldn't believe in dreams.

Sirach 34:1 CEB)
[ On dreams ] Senseless people have empty and false hopes, and dreams excite fools.

Sirach 34:2 (CEB)
Those who pay attention to dreams are just like people who grasp at a shadow or pursue the wind.

Sirach 34:5 (CEB)
Divinations, omens, and dreams are empty. The mind has fantasies, just like a woman in labor does.

Sirach 34:7 (CEB)
Dreams have misled many, and those who have placed hope in them have fallen.

And then of course there are the stories of Joseph interpreting dreams and Peter dreaming of the unclean foods on the sheet...just another example of how Mr. Omni-Omni can't even keep his own story straight.

(September 10, 2015 at 9:06 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(September 10, 2015 at 6:25 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Even the Bible says that a person shouldn't believe in dreams.

Sirach 34:1 CEB)
[ On dreams ] Senseless people have empty and false hopes, and dreams excite fools.

Sirach 34:2 (CEB)
Those who pay attention to dreams are just like people who grasp at a shadow or pursue the wind.

Sirach 34:5 (CEB)
Divinations, omens, and dreams are empty. The mind has fantasies, just like a woman in labor does.

Sirach 34:7 (CEB)
Dreams have misled many, and those who have placed hope in them have fallen.

And then of course there are the stories of Joseph interpreting dreams and Peter dreaming of the unclean foods on the sheet...just another example of how Mr. Omni-Omni can't even keep his own story straight.

That was what was so clever about the English writers.  They included countless diametrical claims to show that the book that they wrote was a parody.  So no matter what the idea is in a particular story you can find another one that invalidates that idea in the first story.  They did a superb job.  The Bible is one of the biggest most successful practical jokes of all time.  Others practical jokes include the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and Scientology.

(September 10, 2015 at 11:57 am)Mr Greene Wrote:

(September 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm)Drich Wrote: I unlike most of you, do not like others doing my thinking for me. I don't take an expert at his word, simply because he is deemed an 'expert.' An 'expert is so because generally speaking, they make their living doing what they do, and can be swayed with the right motivation. I would ask to the 'evidence' and make my own conclusions.

I would also have a lot of questions as in:

What does the evidence of someone not existing look like?

Any testimony can be dismissed, or cancled out by contrary testimony.

The lack of records would only be valid if ALL records of that time were accounted for.

So Im logically at a loss at how one can establish how a specific indivisual in the sea of human History can be proven to never existed. At the very best all that can be said is this person existence has not been confirmed. And if we are talking about Christ, then everyone else of that time frame is also suspect, because their is more data on Him and anyone of that period.

If by 'data' you mean;
"Erm... well... Jerusalem exists!" 

BS, Verona exists, there's more evidence for the Capulets than any of the characters in the Jewish fantasy.

Like it or not the word 'data' simply means facts or other information used to reason out or plan something. This iscludes the bible.