Especially Joseph Smith.

(September 8, 2015 at 8:51 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Pizza Wrote: Drich is talking about religious experiences, I think.

I would prefer Drich's words to your uninformed speculation, thank you.

I don't know what your problem is.

(September 8, 2015 at 10:05 pm)Pizza Wrote:

(September 8, 2015 at 8:51 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I would prefer Drich's words to your uninformed speculation, thank you.

I don't know what your problem is.

I suspect that Jörmungandr wants Drich to hang himself rather than have you do it for him.

(September 8, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Irrational Wrote: Your experiences with God are true because you know God is true. But how do you know God is true? Because your experiences with God are true. If that's not circular, I don't know what is.

Ah, no. I came into this knowing what the bible said, and even then I doubted a lot. Then I had a couple experiences including a few revelations/better understanding of the bible. I honored those revelations and experiences by changing how I thought about God and made small adjustments to my life to reflect what I had learn, I have repeated this pattern for the last 20 years. Two things happened. I am now a completely different person, and what I thought God was/suppoesed to be is not even close to what I have found in my life which is supported by Scripture.

The God of the bible is so vastly different from what most of us/you all think God should be, you all think I am joking or being a troll when I talk about Him. Find out that God is the oppsite of what you expect and honoring the God you find is not circular reasoning nor confirming a bias. it is the oppsite. It is seeking the truth and holding on to what is Good despite what you thought to be true.

Quote:Regarding your Obama example, I believe Obama is real because (for example) I see him on the news and have no good reason to assume he's fake. But I don't go around saying "Obama is my proof and, therefore, I experience Obama in my life".

That is not the circumstance I provided. Do you see how you had to completely change the parameters of my hypothetical just to not concede my point? The paralells I drew between Obama and God still stand. Why? because even with man a person in power does not subject himself to the whims of the common person just to 'prove' himself to an indivisual. If the Indivisual wants personal 'proof' he must follow whatever procedure that is in place, and meet whatever qualifications set fourth by that VIP. My illustration did the same thing in a more relatable way. That is the point not what you actually believe.
So to say again if our VIPs have a procedure to qualify to meet them then why would one assume that God is waiting with baited breath to perform what ever magic trick or grant wishes for you to prove Himself to you?

(September 8, 2015 at 6:21 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(September 8, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Drich Wrote: Uh.. yeah. Duh..
You want to trivialize the 'hypothetical evidence' as if it were a fore gone conclusion past any and all scrutiny. when the fact of the matter is the 'hypothetical evidence' is a logical impossibility just short of time travel. you can not dismiss a logical impossibility to witch hunt for what you perceive to be a logical fallacy. I ask you who is making a greater leap of blind stupid faith here? The one who has witnessed and experienced God and with ever fiber of their being know what they witnessed and experienced to be more true than any other truth one can experience, or the one wanting to play out a 'logical senerio' that involves time travel? because as I point out that would be one of the only ways we could have absolute proof, and even then it is only proof of the documentation provided/faith in said time travler.


Personal experience only validates one's own experiences. But, don't be so quick to dismiss what we experience on a personal level. How do you validate your love for your wife? Kid or 'other?' if not through personal experiences with them.
Now, what if God offered you pinky something as real to YOU as any other relationship you have?

God is not interested in mass worship. Everything that was done was done so we could connect on a personal level. For those who do, this connection is as real as anyother.


See my last post. You guys are working on the assumption that I have no other source for validation that what you are willing to acknowledge. Let pretend for a minute everthing the bible says is true. and that God will reach out to those who truly humble themselves before him and follows His program. If and when this happens "Gawd shows up." Now given that experience what philosophical bit of reasoning could possibly unseat you from what you knew to be absolutely true?

If I was as foolish as you all pretend all Christians are and did everything I did and said here to you all based on the historical account of Jesus found in the bible and in other historical points of references then I would have no recourse than to change my reasoning, because my source material would have been found to be in error.

But again that is not the case. God validates the bible by being found right where the bible says look. But again my belief (not faith anymore) is not based just on the bible. I have faith in the bible because of what I have witnessed and experienced in my life. no 'fancy man logic' will ever change that.

Asked and answer. Except the morals bit.
Yes it would. I am not who I am by nature. I am who I am out of love and respect for God. Therefore I strive to change what I want to what He wants for me. I do a lot out of site of others because it is what God would have me do. 9 times out of 10 it is the hard choice the one that does not benfit me. I Made one of those choices this morning, and it was like a kick in the teeth. what's more no one will ever know, and I do not believe I'll ever benefit from it, but because Jesus said "don't muzzle the ox while treading out the grain." I did what I did. that one hurt. So No God=Muzzling the Ox, because they/this one eats a lot of grain.

Drich, ALL you're doing is dodging the question. Forget the evidence. Forget about it. It's confusing you and giving you a place to turn to dodge the question.


The question (the only relevant one for this thread, the one you refuse to even entertain) is this: what would you do if you believed Jesus did not exist? It does not matter why. Play pretend. Fast forward through that. We're not asking what would convince you. It does not matter for the question being asked. What would you do if you didn't believe Jesus was a real human? For whatever reason.


I know you're still not going to answer...honestly, I don't know why I even try sometimes.

It seems your the one confused. I clearly stated that if my knowledge of God was solely based on the tangable evidence and someone removed the tangable evidence then my belief would change. However since the tangable/written word is only apart of my belief system any change to the written word would not change what I have confirmed through personal experience.

(September 8, 2015 at 7:30 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 8, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Drich Wrote: I ask you who is making a greater leap of blind stupid faith here? The one who has witnessed ... God and with ever fiber of their being know what they witnessed and experienced to be more true than any other truth one can experience, or the one wanting to play out a 'logical senerio' that involves time travel?

What exactly did you witness?  Did you see Him?

I outline what I've experienced through my 'Hell, or my brief experience of it' thread, my 'messenger/message' thread, and several other discussions concerning my health and the opportunities I've been given. (all of which we have discussed in the past.) Well all of which alpo and I discussed in the past.

(September 9, 2015 at 9:51 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 8, 2015 at 7:30 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: What exactly did you witness?  Did you see Him?

I outline what I've experienced through my 'Hell, or my brief experience of it' thread, my 'messenger/message' thread, and several other discussions concerning my health and the opportunities I've been given. (all of which we have discussed in the past.) Well all of which alpo and I discussed in the past.

So no actual 'witnessing' of God, except in a dream?

Quote:So no actual 'witnessing' of God, except in a dream?

Sounds like drippy is channeling "paul."  That fucker was a big one for hallucinations, too.

Just FYI

Drich quoted "Jesus said "don't muzzle the ox while treading out the grain."



Deuteronomy 25:4
1 Timothy 5:18
1 Corinthians 9:9

That's OT and Paul.  It's not in the Gospels.  Jesus didn't say it.

(September 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 9:51 am)Drich Wrote: I outline what I've experienced through my 'Hell, or my brief experience of it' thread, my 'messenger/message' thread, and several other discussions concerning my health and the opportunities I've been given. (all of which we have discussed in the past.) Well all of which alpo and I discussed in the past.

So no actual 'witnessing' of God, except in a dream?

Dreams and empowerment is how God throughout the NT works.

Not to mention I only say 'dream' because I went to sleep in my bed and when the experience was over I woke up in the same place. Everything else about that experience plays out like any other waking memory. I've never had a 'dream' experience like this one.

And, again my experience is not 'proof' for you nor was it meant to be. It was for me. God however offers you exactly what you need to establish and maintain faith as well. Who knows if your lucky God will send you to Hell too!!