A "current atheist" tells me babies are born theists worshipping deities. This is where I stop arguing - it's pointless.

I hear Sam Harris making a similar argument, that atheism is the default position, although I don't fully agree either.

We have no concept of god when we are babies. So, we don't believe or disbelieve, because we are oblivious to anything related to that subject. To me, atheism is an active position on not believing in any deities, so we can't be atheists without knowing what a deity is. There is no position to be held.

Just like if there was something out in space that we hadn't discovered yet. We can't believe or disbelieve in a subject of which we haven't heard of, because it hasn't been conceived in our minds yet. There is no position to be taken.

Hello young lad!

I am always impressed to see well spoken freethinking young people out there. I wasn't able to put a word to my non-belief until I was 18. Good on you. Hope you settle in here and stay involved!

(September 14, 2015 at 10:12 pm)Atheist_BG Wrote: A "current atheist" tells me babies are born theists worshipping deities. This is where I stop arguing - it's pointless.

I don't know what your comparisons even mean anymore, you are taking one thing that is completely by itself and from that coorelating it to things that have no coorelation whatsoever.

To put it simply - Your posts do not make sense.

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(September 14, 2015 at 10:20 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: I hear Sam Harris making a similar argument, that atheism is the default position, although I don't fully agree either.

We have no concept of god when we are babies. So, we don't believe or disbelieve, because we are oblivious to anything related to that subject. To me, atheism is an active position on not believing in any deities, so we can't be atheists without knowing what a deity is. There is no position to be held.

Just like if there was something out in space that we hadn't discovered yet. We can't believe or disbelieve in a subject of which we haven't heard of, because it hasn't been conceived in our minds yet. There is no position to be taken.

I agree except -

I do not think that Atheism is a belief, I think it is a rejection of belief.

But, how can you reject a belief you did not even know existed? Therefore i fail to understand how we are born "Atheists".

(September 14, 2015 at 11:02 pm)heatiosrs Wrote: ...

(September 14, 2015 at 10:20 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: I hear Sam Harris making a similar argument, that atheism is the default position, although I don't fully agree either.

We have no concept of god when we are babies. So, we don't believe or disbelieve, because we are oblivious to anything related to that subject. To me, atheism is an active position on not believing in any deities, so we can't be atheists without knowing what a deity is. There is no position to be held.

Just like if there was something out in space that we hadn't discovered yet. We can't believe or disbelieve in a subject of which we haven't heard of, because it hasn't been conceived in our minds yet. There is no position to be taken.

I agree except -

I do not think that Atheism is a belief, I think it is a rejection of belief.

But, how can you reject a belief you did not even know existed? Therefore i fail to understand how we are born "Atheists".

"Atheism" can mean simply not having a belief in a god:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all

It does not necessarily require that one think about the issue at all.

This, by the way, is just one of the meanings of the term, though etymologically, it is the oldest, as the prefix "a-" means "not," so in that oldest sense, "atheism" simply means "not theism," which would be any and every position that isn't properly described as "theism."

(September 14, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:

(September 14, 2015 at 11:02 pm)heatiosrs Wrote: ...

I agree except -

I do not think that Atheism is a belief, I think it is a rejection of belief.

But, how can you reject a belief you did not even know existed? Therefore i fail to understand how we are born "Atheists".

"Atheism" can mean simply not having a belief in a god:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all

It does not necessarily require that one think about the issue at all.

This, by the way, is just one of the meanings of the term, though etymologically, it is the oldest, as the prefix "a-" means "not," so in that oldest sense, "atheism" simply means "not theism," which would be any and every position that isn't properly described as "theism."

Hmm, I guess various people define it differently, I personally would not define it in that broad of a spectrum. I just don't think it's fair to hypothetically ask the question of what we believe at birth, I would rather there be a term for what is not applicable.

Basically, if you are "Atheist" you are swung toward a disbelief in god, or rejection of claims. Someone who does not even know what "Death" is would not be swung in any direction, you cannot have an opinion on something you haven't even heard of.


Anyway, I guess I am wrong with my definition, even though I don't agree with it.

(September 14, 2015 at 11:02 pm)heatiosrs Wrote:

(September 14, 2015 at 10:12 pm)Atheist_BG Wrote: A "current atheist" tells me babies are born theists worshipping deities. This is where I stop arguing - it's pointless.

I don't know what your comparisons even mean anymore, you are taking one thing that is completely by itself and from that coorelating it to things that have no coorelation whatsoever.

To put it simply - Your posts do not make sense.

---

(September 14, 2015 at 10:20 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: I hear Sam Harris making a similar argument, that atheism is the default position, although I don't fully agree either.

We have no concept of god when we are babies. So, we don't believe or disbelieve, because we are oblivious to anything related to that subject. To me, atheism is an active position on not believing in any deities, so we can't be atheists without knowing what a deity is. There is no position to be held.

Just like if there was something out in space that we hadn't discovered yet. We can't believe or disbelieve in a subject of which we haven't heard of, because it hasn't been conceived in our minds yet. There is no position to be taken.

I agree except -

I do not think that Atheism is a belief, I think it is a rejection of belief.

But, how can you reject a belief you did not even know existed? Therefore i fail to understand how we are born "Atheists".

You misread what I wrote. I never said atheism was a belief. I was agreeing with you that you couldn't be an atheist if you were not aware of any deities. I think you mistook the part where I said atheism is an active position against a man-made construct. I didn't say atheism was a belief system. I agree that it is a lack of belief in deities, but because it's a position of disbelief, it is an active position, therefore it can't be held when you are a baby. Atheist_BG was saying that you were born an atheist, and I think you and I agree that that can't happen.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say some people are born sceptics, and sceptics have a much higher chance of becoming (or remaining, if you like) atheists.

You could argue that it is inevitable, and if they do not, it's the result of severe abuse or extreme circumstances. Of course, they may well profess theistic beliefs to avoid persecution.