(October 16, 2015 at 5:12 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(October 16, 2015 at 3:50 pm)alpha male Wrote: I don't doubt that anyone has received it, I doubt that all people indicated by the guidelines have received it. I've asked about it before and, from the lack of answers, think that I'm probably correct, particularly about the men.

The point is that people's words say one thing, but their actions say another, or everyone in the indicated group in countries where it's approved would have gotten it.

Do you have any data at all, or is this just a guess based on some sort of agenda you have?  

Gardasil has only been approved for males since 2010.

Here's some US stats:
http://deainfo.nci.nih.gov/advisory/pcp/...PqdeH.dpbs

In 2012, only 53.8 percent of 13- to 17-year-old girls had received the first HPV vaccine dose, and only 33.4 percent had completed all three recommended doses.[5] These levels are nearly identical to what was observed in 2011 and fall considerably short of the Healthy People 2020 goal of having 80 percent of 13- to 15-year-old girls fully vaccinated against HPV.
...
Immunization rates for U.S. boys are even lower than for girls. Only 20.8 percent of boys ages 13-17 had received at least one dose, and only 6.8 percent had completed the series, in 2012.[7] Though only one year after the ACIP recommendation for boys was issued, this rate of HPV vaccine initiation is substantially lower than that observed for girls in 2007, suggesting the need for concerted efforts to promote HPV vaccination of boys.

So it's likely that we have people here who should have received Gardasil, but haven't.

Why not?

It makes me so disgusted this Anti-vax shit.

It makes me sick like the Jehovah's Witnesses denying children fucking blood transfusions!

The JWs do more damage than fucking knocking on your door and being annoying cunts!

(October 17, 2015 at 9:16 am)alpha male Wrote: So it's likely that we have people here who should have received Gardasil, but haven't.

Why not?

HPV has a limited transmission profile where the other diseases vaccinated for do not. Gardasil is voluntary not state required. Just like flu vaccinations, adenovirus, herpes virus in adults, typhoid.......... are not required but voluntary. You're position/argument has little validity in this thread.

Vaccination requirement by state: http://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/schoolsurv/schImmRqmt.asp

(October 17, 2015 at 11:25 am)Evie Wrote: It makes me so disgusted this Anti-vax shit.

It makes me sick like the Jehovah's Witnesses denying children fucking blood transfusions!

The JWs do more damage than fucking knocking on your door and being annoying cunts!

God I get sick of listening to this attitude. I used to have a similar attitude, but then I matured.

JW's are not the problem. They are healthcare consumers like everyone else, and you never blame the consumer for being "wrong".

There are two issues in your post - the first is people who deny their child a vaccination. This doesn't matter - it really doesn't. Individuals can choose not to vaccinate and it won't make a difference so long as you get 95% of children vaccinated. So stop wasting time and effort on the few people who are actually opposed (which isn't very many), and instead concentrate on the people who aren't actively opposed, but have missed vaccinations for a variety of reasons. I guarantee you that it's possible to exceed 95% vaccination rates without worrying about the people who are actually anti-vaccination.

The second issue is denying your a child lifesaving medical care. Again, in this instance it actually doesn't matter what parents want or believe, it should be possible for healthcare providers to provide certain treatments for children even if their parents are opposed.

But there's a limit as well you know. Sometimes parents force children who dying of cancer or other conditions to undergo numerous treatments, even treatments that have no real prospect of success. But the children would often rather spend their time doing things they enjoy than undergoing treatments in hospitals that are not going to actually help them. Unfortunately, these parents do not listen to healthcare providers when they recommend that treatment stops. They will even travel internationally to find other healthcare providers who continue treatment, rather than let their child spend their limited life doing other things.

(October 18, 2015 at 9:54 am)Aractus Wrote:

(October 17, 2015 at 11:25 am)Evie Wrote: It makes me so disgusted this Anti-vax shit.

It makes me sick like the Jehovah's Witnesses denying children fucking blood transfusions!

The JWs do more damage than fucking knocking on your door and being annoying cunts!

God I get sick of listening to this attitude. I used to have a similar attitude, but then I matured.

JW's are not the problem. They are healthcare consumers like everyone else, and you never blame the consumer for being "wrong".

There are two issues in your post - the first is people who deny their child a vaccination. This doesn't matter - it really doesn't. Individuals can choose not to vaccinate and it won't make a difference so long as you get 95% of children vaccinated. So stop wasting time and effort on the few people who are actually opposed (which isn't very many), and instead concentrate on the people who aren't actively opposed, but have missed vaccinations for a variety of reasons. I guarantee you that it's possible to exceed 95% vaccination rates without worrying about the people who are actually anti-vaccination.

Yes, it DOES matter. This sort of shit causes very real consequences. There have been measles outbreaks in the US in the last year. There is no excuse for this at all. It is not true that there aren't many anti-vaccination people. These assholes are putting people at very real, tangible risk of contracting PREVENTABLE diseases.

(October 18, 2015 at 9:54 am)Aractus Wrote: There are two issues in your post - the first is people who deny their child a vaccination. This doesn't matter - it really doesn't. Individuals can choose not to vaccinate and it won't make a difference so long as you get 95% of children vaccinated. So stop wasting time and effort on the few people who are actually opposed (which isn't very many), and instead concentrate on the people who aren't actively opposed, but have missed vaccinations for a variety of reasons. I guarantee you that it's possible to exceed 95% vaccination rates without worrying about the people who are actually anti-vaccination.

It may be, let's hope that it is - but why can't we, and why shouldn't we address both issues?  If the goal is hitting a number, then getting one person who's just behind and getting one person who has some objection "x" moves us towards that goal equally.  One's harder...is that your objection.  Really?  

Quote:The second issue is denying your a child lifesaving medical care. Again, in this instance it actually doesn't matter what parents want or believe, it should be possible for healthcare providers to provide certain treatments for children even if their parents are opposed.

Here...in the US, it does matter...even if it shouldn't.  It does matter what they believe, because what they believe is precisely why they deny the care, and why we pussyfoot around it.

(October 18, 2015 at 10:04 am)Mermaid Wrote: Yes, it DOES matter. This sort of shit causes very real consequences. There have been measles outbreaks in the US in the last year. There is no excuse for this at all. It is not true that there aren't many anti-vaccination people. These assholes are putting people at very real, tangible risk of contracting PREVENTABLE diseases.

So what - who cares? It's fucking measles in a first-world country where there's almost no chance of mortality from it.

Did anyone at all actually die in the outbreak from measles?

Do you realise you're labelling everyone who didn't vaccinate as "assholes" when in fact many people who don't vaccinate their child have done so because of medical reasons, or other reasons that caused them to inadvertently miss a vaccination.

The MMR vaccine itself is the problem. It has the lowest rate among vaccinations - mostly due to medical concerns (i.e. people can't take it when sick), but also due to the fact that parents don't like it. It's too strong - many people want it to be split into two or three different vaccinations, if it was offered in that way instead of as a triple vaccination the immunisation rate would increase.

Of course we want there to be less outbreaks of disease, but measles in a first world country really isn't as important as say whooping cough.

(October 18, 2015 at 10:10 am)Rhythm Wrote: Here...in the US, it does matter...even if it shouldn't.  It does matter what they believe, because what they believe is precisely why they deny the care, and why we pussyfoot around it.

Well it's a matter for legislators. You're never going to be able to force people to do things, and nor should you expect them to. But you can certainly legislate so that the decision can be taken out of the parents control where it is medically necessary for the treatment of a minor.

(October 18, 2015 at 11:26 am)Aractus Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 10:04 am)Mermaid Wrote: Yes, it DOES matter. This sort of shit causes very real consequences. There have been measles outbreaks in the US in the last year. There is no excuse for this at all. It is not true that there aren't many anti-vaccination people. These assholes are putting people at very real, tangible risk of contracting PREVENTABLE diseases.

So what - who cares? It's fucking measles in a first-world country where there's almost no chance of mortality from it.

Did anyone at all actually die in the outbreak from measles?

So mortality is your measure? Measles is a VERY serious disease. It's not a hangnail. Do some reading.

Quote:Do you realise you're labelling everyone who didn't vaccinate as "assholes" when in fact many people who don't vaccinate their child have done so because of medical reasons, or other reasons that caused them to inadvertently miss a vaccination.

Didn't and wouldn't say that, ever. I agree, there are people who cannot be vaccinated. THAT IS WHY EVERYONE ELSE NEEDS TO BE.

Quote:The MMR vaccine itself is the problem. It has the lowest rate among vaccinations - mostly due to medical concerns (i.e. people can't take it when sick), but also due to the fact that parents don't like it. It's too strong - many people want it to be split into two or three different vaccinations, if it was offered in that way instead of as a triple vaccination the immunisation rate would increase.

Of course we want there to be less outbreaks of disease, but measles in a first world country really isn't as important as say whooping cough.

What does "too strong" even mean? Have you ever taken immunology? vaccinology? Do you understand how vaccines work? What exactly is problematic about the MMR vaccine? You can't take ANY vaccine when you're sick or otherwise immunocompromised. There's a very good biological reason for this, and it is most definitely not specific to MMR.

You mention whooping cough as a serious disease, this is ALSO on the rise because of the anti-vaccination movement.

Aractus Wrote:There are two issues in your post - the first is people who deny their child a vaccination. This doesn't matter - it really doesn't. Individuals can choose not to vaccinate and it won't make a difference so long as you get 95% of children vaccinated.

So the 5% of children who don't get vaccinated and are in danger don't matter to you? I feel compassion for every child why the fuck shouldn't I care about the 5%? What on earth is wrong with you?

And 5% is a huge amount! That's one in 20 children if you were too fucking careless to remember.

Quote:So stop wasting time and effort on the few people who are actually opposed (which isn't very many), and instead concentrate on the people who aren't actively opposed, but have missed vaccinations for a variety of reasons. I guarantee you that it's possible to exceed 95% vaccination rates without worrying about the people who are actually anti-vaccination.

Every child matters, every individual matters, I care about them all. This collectivist morality of only caring about the majority is ridiculous and immoral and lacking in compassion.

Quote:The second issue is denying your a child lifesaving medical care. Again, in this instance it actually doesn't matter what parents want or believe, it should be possible for healthcare providers to provide certain treatments for children even if their parents are opposed.

The point is being against giving your child blood transfusions is wrong, if you have a problem with my statement then that is wrong of you because then you're the one lacking compassion for the very basic idea that children have a right to have blood transfusions when they need them. Which is all I was saying.

Whether the children end up having them or not - the parents who wished to deny them the blood transfusion are still terrible parents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10sxcRPhp-k

Some reading about measles.
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html