ok returning to the thread topic ......

" Few atheists are open to possibilities while most of them are not " i have met several atheists who claim to be open minded to the possibility that God might exist but i wonder what percentage of them actually are . it would be interesting to start a poll on that question . are you sure that God does not exist or are you unsure whether God exists or not . i suspect that most will proclaim that no God does not exist or cannot exist .

I disagree, most atheists are open to the possibility of God they just don't take Him seriously.

You might say I am not open for example. But I do believe God is possible. I'm an agnostic atheist.

I just don't believe He is remotely likely or realistic.

I'm probably going to say what almost everyone will, only I'll get in first - my position on the existence of gods depends on how those gods are defined. Borrowing from Richard Dawkins, if the god you're proposing is a special tree carved with totem symbols, then I will accept that it exists as a tree. There's no way I'm automatically going to accept any claims made for your god(s), which is why you hear us asking for evidence all the time. It's not us being contrary for the sake of it, though that can be fun too; it's more that you (generalising) keep asking us to adopt a position of belief based on nothing we can test. Worse, those things that we can test always fall apart under the simplest of examination.

Now I'm going to go a stage further than the usual atheist line and state that I don't believe a god as defined in common popular religious mythology can exist in a Universe like ours. The nature of this god is usually defined to be totally at odds with the reality we experience on a daily basis, to the point where nothing coherent can be said about it without it devolving into a battle of personalities and hurt feelings.

(October 16, 2015 at 12:33 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

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(October 16, 2015 at 11:56 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Right but he grants you "key insight". Presumably insight that would be unique to him and could not come from a human?
I mean, why bother getting intouch otherwise? It would be like the CEO delivering a companies mail.
Well? What was the insight?

yes thats right ..... why dont you share with me your childhood experiences and your intimate relationships and your personal feelings ? i knew you for about 2 minutes before i shared what i did im sure God will want me to share more at the perfect time - regardless and despite my own personal hesitation about it which is exactly what happened yesterday , im in no rush .

I didn't realize Gods thoughts were personal to you. Seems like the kind of reaction someone would have at being asked their own thoughts but as we both know thats absurd. These are Gods thoughts and as such you have no reason to feel threatened by curiosity displayed towards them. Unless God is offended by my curiosity? Is he?

Its almost like you're saying your God is personal... like a... whats the term... a personal God. 
Your own personal God. Thats it.

(October 17, 2015 at 11:27 am)Stimbo Wrote: Well, when it's the only song you know...

Karaoke night at Little Rik's Café grew old a long, long time ago.

[Bogart voice]: Play it, Sam. Anything so long as it's a different tune.

(October 17, 2015 at 4:26 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Now I'm going to go a stage further than the usual atheist line and state that I don't believe a god as defined in common popular religious mythology can exist in a Universe like ours. The nature of this god is usually defined to be totally at odds with the reality we experience on a daily basis, to the point where nothing coherent can be said about it without it devolving into a battle of personalities and hurt feelings.

I'm the same... although plenty of gods are not contradictory to reality and hence I consider them 'merely' very very very improbable... the God of the Bible for example interpreted completely literally is so full of contradictions that he cannot exist. It is only when the Bible is cherry picked to be watered down considerably that he then becomes possible - the purely Biblically literal God cannot be possible along with many other gods that are logically contradictory.

For example, taken literally the God of the Bible has two creation stories that contradict each other, so taken literally that God cannot exist. Furthermore, any Biblical interpretation that implies that God himself has free will, but also is interpreted to suggest that he is omniscient and knows all his own future actions - is also impossible. Because he is not free to do otherwise other than what he knows he must do in the future....

...furthermore if the Biblical interpretation of free will is considered to be the contra-causal/libertarian version of free will, then that is an entirely incoherent impossible concept - so any definitions of God or other Biblical claims that are defined in such a way as to be connected to contra-causal/libertarian free will are also impossible.

(October 17, 2015 at 4:26 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm probably going to say what almost everyone will, only I'll get in first - my position on the existence of gods depends on how those gods are defined. Borrowing from Richard Dawkins, if the god you're proposing is a special tree carved with totem symbols, then I will accept that it exists as a tree. There's no way I'm automatically going to accept any claims made for your god(s), which is why you hear us asking for evidence all the time. It's not us being contrary for the sake of it, though that can be fun too; it's more that you (generalising) keep asking us to adopt a position of belief based on nothing we can test. Worse, those things that we can test always fall apart under the simplest of examination.

Now I'm going to go a stage further than the usual atheist line and state that I don't believe a god as defined in common popular religious mythology can exist in a Universe like ours. The nature of this god is usually defined to be totally at odds with the reality we experience on a daily basis, to the point where nothing coherent can be said about it without it devolving into a battle of personalities and hurt feelings.

so would you be open to the possibility of God existing outside of religious mythology such as the concept that God is in everything that exists or God is nature or in some form that did not contradict science ?

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(October 17, 2015 at 4:53 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(October 16, 2015 at 12:33 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

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yes thats right ..... why dont you share with me your childhood experiences and your intimate relationships and your personal feelings ? i knew you for about 2 minutes before i shared what i did im sure God will want me to share more at the perfect time - regardless and despite my own personal hesitation about it which is exactly what happened yesterday , im in no rush .

I didn't realize Gods thoughts were personal to you. Seems like the kind of reaction someone would have at being asked their own thoughts but as we both know thats absurd. These are Gods thoughts and as such you have no reason to feel threatened by curiosity displayed towards them. Unless God is offended by my curiosity? Is he?

Its almost like you're saying your God is personal... like a... whats the term... a personal God. 
Your own personal God. Thats it.

i do have a relationship with God and its something that i do care about whether you believe me or not and im sure you have me all figured out like you have the rest of the universe all figured out and organized your not curious your only interested in laughing at something that i care about deeply and that means a lot to me .  I have no hesitation whatsoever sharing my own thoughts with anyone i love debating a lot of different topics and im very outspoken about my opinions on things .

If you can bring me some evidence of such a god, I'm more than happy to review it. As long as you are equally as happy for the evidence to be dissected and, if necessary, discarded as irrelevant.

(October 17, 2015 at 5:31 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 17, 2015 at 4:26 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm probably going to say what almost everyone will, only I'll get in first - my position on the existence of gods depends on how those gods are defined. Borrowing from Richard Dawkins, if the god you're proposing is a special tree carved with totem symbols, then I will accept that it exists as a tree. There's no way I'm automatically going to accept any claims made for your god(s), which is why you hear us asking for evidence all the time. It's not us being contrary for the sake of it, though that can be fun too; it's more that you (generalising) keep asking us to adopt a position of belief based on nothing we can test. Worse, those things that we can test always fall apart under the simplest of examination.

Now I'm going to go a stage further than the usual atheist line and state that I don't believe a god as defined in common popular religious mythology can exist in a Universe like ours. The nature of this god is usually defined to be totally at odds with the reality we experience on a daily basis, to the point where nothing coherent can be said about it without it devolving into a battle of personalities and hurt feelings.

so would you be open to the possibility of God existing outside of religious mythology such as the concept that God is in everything that exists or God is nature or in some form that did not contradict science ?

Answering for myself, no. Because that would be redundant and useless (except for poetic use). Why call that God?

I just wanna give Jenny a gentle pat on the head Bless her