(October 18, 2015 at 2:27 am)Aractus Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 1:19 am)Evie Wrote: It's not wrong 'logically'.

Well I disagree, and 200 - 300, 000 years of humanity would also disagree.

But like I said, just because it's "logically wrong" means nothing.

Women weren't allowed to vote until recently. Does this mean it's "logically wrong" for them to do so?

Yeah the 'logically wrong' thing makes no sense.

@ Aractus

If humans were bigoted for 80 billion years that wouldn't make it 'logically wrong' to be otherwise.

Social Darwinism means absolutely nothing. Who gives a fuck if throughout history people have been bigoted against homosexuality, it means nothing to it being 'logically wrong'. They were just fucking misinformed and ignorant bigots. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality at all. And no it's not entirely a religious thing but religion had a big influence on that bigotry. It's no less natural or normal, the fact homosexuals cannot reproduce means nothing. Social darwinism is immoral. There is absolutely nothing wrong logically with homosexuality and there never was. What kind of messed up definition of 'logically' are you using? You can disagree all you want, you're wrong and you've making no sense whatsoever if you think that homosexuality was ever 'logically wrong' just because throughout history people were more bigoted than they are now.

(October 18, 2015 at 2:10 am)heatiosrs Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 1:32 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: Differences in religious beliefs is a minor thing for atheists but not for many theists.  Theism is about something they believe in which matters a great deal to them.  Atheism really isn't anything, just the lack of something.  So theists are more likely to object to forming important relationships with atheists since we challenge beliefs which are meaningful to them.  

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A theist may be attracted to an atheist and honestly believe/hope the difference can be worked with.  But that is the sort of appraisal a person can get wrong.  It doesn't require dishonesty, a simple lack of self knowledge is enough.  

The differences look less important to an atheist because it involves something unimportant to them.  You just can't reasonably expect to talk a theist into agreeing that religious belief is unimportant.  Your 'truths' simply are not compatible.  

Of course not all theists hold their religion as near and dear as others do.  There are atheists on this site married to theists and making it work.  But an atheist forming an attachment to a theist has to make a judgment call about the other person's ability to accurately assess how important religion will go on being for them.

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I can't really agree that gay rights are unimportant either. That doesn't mean I can't be a normal human being and keep my thoughts and opinions to myself and not attack anyone that doesn't believe what I believe.

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand how what you say here relates to what I said.  I realize I'm coming in in the middle of a conversation and my point more addresses the original post.  

Of course I agree that gay rights are important.  But a religious person who aims to follow the letter of doctrine might disagree with us without being entirely immoral and unreasonable.  It is certainly intolerant of them in a broader sense, but it isn't inconsistent with how they hold their religion or the importance they place on it.  Their point of view isn't ours.

(October 18, 2015 at 2:35 am)Irrational Wrote: Women weren't allowed to vote until recently. Does this mean it's "logically wrong" for them to do so?

Well there could have been "logical reasoning" behind the original conventional wisdom of the age that denied women that right. Or it might have been a different type of reasoning.

(October 18, 2015 at 3:39 am)Evie Wrote: Yeah the 'logically wrong' thing makes no sense.

@ Aractus

If humans were bigoted for 80 billion years that wouldn't make it 'logically wrong' to be otherwise.

Social Darwinism means absolutely nothing. Who gives a fuck if throughout history people have been bigoted against homosexuality, it means nothing to it being 'logically wrong'. They were just fucking misinformed and ignorant bigots. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality at all. And no it's not entirely a religious thing but religion had a big influence on that bigotry. It's no less natural or normal, the fact homosexuals cannot reproduce means nothing. Social darwinism is immoral. There is absolutely nothing wrong logically with homosexuality and there never was. What kind of messed up definition of 'logically' are you using? You can disagree all you want, you're wrong and you've making no sense whatsoever if you think that homosexuality was ever 'logically wrong' just because throughout history people were more bigoted than they are now.

Evie, it wasn't just "logically wrong" - it was considered a mental illness by doctors up until 1973-1974. You can look it up, it's was listed a mental disorder in the DSM. Prior to 1974, in any country that used the DSM to diagnose mental disorders (just about every western country) if you told your doctor you were a homosexual, he should have diagnosed you with a personality disturbance.

Ignorance is not the same as intolerance or bigotry. People didn't understand it in the past - and most people still don't really understand it today.

The crux of the issue is that you expected him to treat you with the same respect you gave him, despite ample evidence over two years that he's not that kind of person, and now you're pissed because you got burned by that decision.

This has nothing to do with atheism, but rather making the mistake of confiding in an asshole.

Listen, we know that being a teenage atheist is rough, especially if you go to a religious school. That's why the only smart thing any kid in that situation can do is keep their head down, do the work, and don't bring undue attention to themselves. It's about survival at this stage. Devoutly religious teens mostly fucking suck. They're the combination of teenage douch baggery melded with bathing-in-the-Kool Aid, delighting in the indoctrination theism. Quick to judge, expose, and bully. As a group they're not to be trusted.

So, yeah, we're sympathetic to you learning this the hard way. But beyond giving you sound advice (seriously, you need to work on your asshole detector and be a lot more judicious with who you consider a friend), I'm not sure what else you expect anyone here to do about it.