OK, so as a recent de-convert, my moral view's are still adjusting, my original stance was that LGBT is "wrong", (really anything sexual that's not a married man/woman was "wrong", including masturbation). Abortion was tantamount to murder. Lying/murder/cheating, of course these were unacceptable actions. Now that i know there's no actual sin, I'm already seeing a change in some of these views, and I'm actually viewing some other things as being "wrong" that I had always questioned previously, but most christians don't believe to be wrong. I'd like to share this list and get some additional viewpoints.
First, however, I feel that some sort of explanation is in order for why I believe the way i do (morally) since I don't base my views on what an "omnipotent creator" want's any longer. Now that I don't have that, I base my moral's on what is necessary to ensure the continuation of my species beyond my death, and whether I will have a positive or negative impact on the future of my species.

1.Abortion - I've made an about face on this, I've believed this was wrong and equal to murder (i don't think we can say when consciousness occurs yet?) However, with recent advances we can tell if the baby will have genetic defects and other factors. The so called "designer baby's", if done responsibility, could be a benefit for our species (when you look over the course of many generations). We may wind up eventually breeding out undesirable traits for our species with this. Not including the research that's being done with stem cells (I'm not suggesting that we "grow" fetuses to harvest stem-cells or anything like that, which might "demean" our humanity, but i don't think it's wise for use to ignore the potential benefits of performing these researches. However, it would be naive not to realize that there are people who WOULD do these things, and if we want to prevent it from occurring, to preserve our human dignity, it would need to be tightly regulated (as i believe it is today?). Also, full disclosure, about 15 years ago my girlfriend and I decided to get an abortion ourselves because we felt we were unprepared to care for a baby (I was also quite frightened about what would happen if my ultra religious family would find out).

2.LGBT - I'm not sure how this got tied all up in atheism, I do still kinda find it (gross?) when I think about it, I don't know many LGBT people, those I do know I've felt a mutual respect as human beings, but I don't think there's a place in a religious society for this of course. But also, in an advanced civilization, I don't believe there's a place either (at least not at this time), and here's why. LGBT actions aren't consistent with procreation (which is necessary for the continuation of my species.) I am willing to admit & realize that my views may come from a place of ignorance and I'm interested in a re-alignment. As I've understood it gay people are born that way? (I believe this also applies to LBT?) and please forgive me of this, but really any other sexual preferences other than the ones associated with procreation? (bestiality/pedophilia/I believe there are others however uncommon) are also born this way? (i'm NOT trying to insult lgbt, but as a rational person i don't see how i can't draw similarity's). If this is true, then for example, if i were to be married some day in the future and we decided to procreate and we had 5 fetuses to choose from and 2 had the traits that were not hetero, I don't believe we would choose either of those two fetuses. Specifically for the continuation of our species.

3. I think it's incredibly easy to give a case for not murdering. If I understand correctly, serial murderers today have different brains than the rest of us do, and over the millennia, our ancestors would have routed these people out as we do today because they don't want to be killed themselves, so their gene's don't get passed. This doesn't only apply to serial killers, our ancestors would likely have also routed out opportunistic murderers for the same reasons (although i don't believe they murder as a genetic condition) As a whole, society "governs" itself, which provides a check/balance not only for murderer's, but a wide range of things like lying/cheating/adultery, I think the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't something we've been programmed with but rather a natural law.

4.(this is a little bit of a slide on the topic of this post, please don't get whiplash, but it's semi related) I also don't understand how christianity/republicans/the right got all intertwined with Guns (REALLY GUNS?) guns are there to kill shit?? seems like that's something that would be a value held by someone who's non-religious, rather than a christian view. It doesn't make sense to me, and it never did. Climate change??? same story? According to the bible aren't we supposed to be "good stewards"? Why do the religious seem intent on denying climate change?

I find myself arriving upon a couple of dilemma's when contemplating these things. If you read my introduction post you'd know I'm bi-polar. I wonder if I have an obligation NOT to procreate because of my mental illness, even if that means adopting to at least protect some of the next generation from the oppressive religious views. Although I do believe I have other traits that are worthwhile, and beneficial to our species. I've recently re-watched Idiocracy, and while it's a really funny movie, I think it's actually a plausible scenario I'd like to help prevent from occurring lol. In that case, do i have an obligation TO procreate?

Finally, in watching some you tube video's from atheists recently, I've heard the argument "I don't mind if you practice your religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with others", but inevitably that's followed with describing people strapping explosives to their chests (obviously referencing muslims or something similar), or stoning someone for one reason or another (again, a non-christian belief) or denying some rights to LGBT (which, if the audience has a similar view as i once/still kinda do have regarding LGBT, this analogy will fly right over their heads). However, if instead we gave an example that these christians can relate to, I believe it would be much more effective in getting our point across (rome wasn't built in a day). For example, religion gives a belief in an afterlife, demeaning the life we are currently in, people have killed themselves thinking they will rise again in the afterlife when that's not true. Religion seems to promote guns, mismanagement of our planet, indoctrinating children, televangelists. If we could find common ground I think our points would be much more effective. 

Anyways, it's super crazy late, I've got so much i still want to ask/say, I'm sure I've pissed some people off with this post, but that's not my intent. For now I'll say goodnight, but I'm very interested in your thoughts/views on this. Please reply

I hear half atheist and half Christian ... you're getting there...

A very interesting post! Thanks for sharing.

To me, morality is about respecting the wellbeing of others and society as a whole. I have a pretty simple rule of thumb. I ask if what someone is doing hurts anyone. If the answer is no, then I say let them get on with it. That's a very basic starting point, but it cuts things up into OK and not OK pretty efficiently. Deeper analysis can then be applied where needed.

Regarding LGBT, you're talking in general about characteristics not actions. We're still understanding exactly how these things come about, but it is generally agreed that it is not a choice. Judging someone's worth on whether or not they can reproduce would only make sense to me if we were on the brink of extinction and had very limited resources. At the moment, we actually have huge problems with overpopulation. So this argument really doesn't work. Also, they can generally reproduce just fine. Many gay men have children.

As you seem to have already realized, just firing out children isn't always a great thing to do anyway. I've never had children and never will, for a variety of reasons. Not breeding is actually desirable when the world is so crowded.

Regarding abortion, you have two choices: you allow women to make the decision about what grows inside them, or you force them to give birth. It's not a straightforward situation, but I feel the women's rights should win out over something that may develop into a life but hasn't done so yet. Her body, her choice. The world is already packed full of children that don't have a home. We don't need yet another one that the mother doesn't want, or isn't in a position to properly support.

Viewed from a non-horny perspective, hetero sex is also gross. Such a mess, please!

But I was going to say something else - you use teleological and naive evolutionary arguments to justify things, I don't think those are valid. Why should actions which do serve or not serve procreation be more or less "right"? In any case, if you start arguing from what evolution "wants", note that it was evolution by natural selection that made a percentage of mammals homosexual (to varying degrees) in the first place. It's not like the human race is on the brink of extinction anyways. And even if it were, and the last people were all LGBT, there would probably be enough LB women who would still like to carry a child to term. They'd just prefer to not explicitely get down to business with a guy to start it, which is of course not necessary anyways..

Oh yeah, I forgot that bit

There's nothing wrong with you finding gay sex gross. It's perfectly understandable. But while no one is forcing you to partake in it or watch it happen, it's not hurting you.

Nothing gross with watching lesbian sex! Unless it's got skat in it! Then I agree, it can get messy!

(October 28, 2015 at 6:32 am)ignoramus Wrote: Nothing gross with watching lesbian sex! Unless it's got skat in it! Then I agree, it can get messy!

Even if they don't explicitely defecate on camera and just have ordinary sex, remember that they are still full of those gross things at the inside while they are doing it.

hey, we're all ugly on the inside! It's the outside I like to watch! (Otherwise I would've become a surgeon!) just kidding, not smart enough...

Sounds to me that you led your political inclinations determine your religious beliefs and Christ was not truly central to your life.

(October 28, 2015 at 7:17 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Sounds to me that you led your political inclinations determine your religious beliefs and Christ was not truly central to your life.

It's too late for that kind of guilt trip, Chad, he's already an atheist