The cause of complacency is the fact that humans in general think little beyond their own lives and would rather enjoy than strive.

I think Marx's idea of class is over simplistic,  but his idea that previliged portions tends to protect the unsustainable status quo that gave them the privilege, until the status quo become so onerous to others that violence would arise to overthrow it, is fairly accurate.

(November 1, 2015 at 10:40 pm)Chuck Wrote: The cause of complacency is the fact that humans in general think little beyond their own lives and would rather enjoy than strive.

I think Marx's idea of class is over simplistic,  but his idea that previliged portions of tends to protect the unsustainable status quo that gave them the privilege, until the status quo become so onerous to others that violence would arise to overthrow it, is fairly accurate.

So you think that the fact that people would rater enjoy than strive causes people, at times, to strive for a short amount of time so that they can enjoy more when their striving is over?

Quote:One way to view this is as a class war, if you bear in mind that again, the British had more money.

Remember the trigger for all of this.  The Treaty of Paris in 1763 cemented British rule in North America the French recovered the more valuable (in their opinion ) sugar plantations they had lost.  Further, rather than having "more money" the British were mortgaged to British and Dutch banks and tried to get the colonials to pay for British exertions during the 7 Years War.  These actions tended to impact the merchant class most and therein lie the seeds for revolution.  I don't agree with your "class warfare" concept especially if you mean it in a Marxist sense.  The American merchants were the nouveau riche looking to get in on the British action.

(November 1, 2015 at 10:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:One way to view this is as a class war, if you bear in mind that again, the British had more money.

Remember the trigger for all of this.  The Treaty of Paris in 1763 cemented British rule in North America the French recovered the more valuable (in their opinion ) sugar plantations they had lost.  Further, rather than having "more money" the British were mortgaged to British and Dutch banks and tried to get the colonials to pay for British exertions during the 7 Years War.  These actions tended to impact the merchant class most and therein lie the seeds for revolution.  I don't agree with your "class warfare" concept especially if you mean it in a Marxist sense.  The American merchants were the nouveau riche looking to get in on the British action.

Then this "action" must have had more than a monetary value to the American merchants.  After all it costs a considerable amount of money to prosecute a war.

(November 1, 2015 at 10:50 pm)Combanitorics Wrote:

(November 1, 2015 at 10:40 pm)Chuck Wrote: The cause of complacency is the fact that humans in general think little beyond their own lives and would rather enjoy than strive.

I think Marx's idea of class is over simplistic,  but his idea that previliged portions of tends to protect the unsustainable status quo that gave them the privilege, until the status quo become so onerous to others that violence would arise to overthrow it, is fairly accurate.

So you think that the fact that people would rater enjoy than strive causes people, at times, to strive for a short amount of time so that they can enjoy more when their striving is over?

Yes. But many factors complicate that.

(November 1, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(November 1, 2015 at 10:50 pm)Combanitorics Wrote: So you think that the fact that people would rater enjoy than strive causes people, at times, to strive for a short amount of time so that they can enjoy more when their striving is over?

Yes.  But many factors complicate that.

I suppose.  People strove to create the Soviet Union, and then enjoyed it while they had it.  This historical fact is complicated.

I fought war more interesting than peace. I don't prefer war to peace but I did enjoy fighting in a way.

British provocations began in 1763 but it is not like flipping on a light switch.  Independence seems to have caught hold for a significant number of Americans after Lexington and Concord.  Congress was still dithering when the British stormed Bunker (Breeds) Hill.

(November 1, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: I fought war more interesting than peace. I don't prefer war to peace but I did enjoy fighting in a way.

The fighting itself, or some benefit you reaped from being part of the fight?  Was it about belonging to a group, or did it stem from gains resulting from the outcome of the conflict?

(November 1, 2015 at 10:15 pm)Combanitorics Wrote:

(November 1, 2015 at 10:13 pm)Chuck Wrote: Well, intellectual bankruptcy is often unavoidable in peace,  and war is often the response to intellectual bankruptcy that produces the surplus of intellectual capital to refill the depleted coffers.

Why is intellectual bankruptcy often unavoidable in peace?  What, in your opinion, is the ultimate cause of intellectual bankruptcy?

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(November 1, 2015 at 10:14 pm)abaris Wrote: Want to ask my grandfather from beyond the grave? I still have his diary from WWI. No mention of god. Don't resort to that kind of idiocy, if you please.

What did he say?  I have definitely heard reports by soldiers (my mother's brother in Vietnam) that war engenders a substantially altered state of consciousness.

I've never been in organized combat, but I was a firefighter in the Air Force and as such saw a few SHTF moments, where the balance between living and dying was pretty fine. I didn't have the time nor inclination to notice any paranormal stuff. I was too busy working on the problem at hand, taking charge of my own survival and where necessary the survival of my brotha firedogs.

I also survived another man's attempt to kill me in a fight, and there even more was I too busy with the matter at hand to pray (not that I would have, I was already an atheist) or notice ghosts, angels, etc.