Desperate theistic special pleading is getting depressing. It's so sad.

(November 2, 2015 at 8:28 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(October 31, 2015 at 12:46 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(October 31, 2015 at 8:06 am)Little Rik Wrote: Yes it is yog.
You can keep on melting in your ignorance on the subject but that will not change the fact that consciousness is an abstract entity.
The evidence is in the fact that your physical senses can not grasp it.

How do you know that you cannot grasp it? You don't know this. You just assert it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That's all you have is absence of evidence.

You follow the same line of stupidity that Cato follow in thinking that our physical senses are able to grasp anything even what is not physical or thinking that because our physical senses are not getting any evidence of the existence of God then God doesn't exist.
It is by using the correct tool that you may be able to solve a problem but i imagine that when your toilet is not flushing you will call an electrician.  
You are not even funny yog.
You need help.  

How is this even an answer to what I asked? It isn't. It's just random bullshit.
Until you can provide some positive evidence that consciousness is not physical, it remains an open question.
You are simply wrong on this. But that's never stopped you before, has it?

(November 2, 2015 at 10:20 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(October 31, 2015 at 9:53 am)paulpablo Wrote: You mean, If I HAVE a mind, you should be able to smell it, SHOULDN'T YOU?
The answer is, no you wouldn't be able to smell my mind because the mind is the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought.
This has nothing to do with my question.  I'm asking you why would you use a term used in physics and in general to describe the oscillation of a physical thing (vibration) when you believe nothing is physical?
If someone was to say consiousness doesn't exist, but then talk about cognition or dreams this would be contradictory since cognition and and dreams are a part of a persons consiouness.
If there are no physical things then there is nothing physical to vibtrate.  Unless you can describe how non physical things can vibrate.

Your problem Pablo is that you presume that vibrations must only be part of the physical reality.
Who said that?
Consciousness is not a physical reality but why should it be prevented from having vibrations?
My consciousness is different from yours and our consciousness are also different from anyone else and if a God exist must also be different from his-her one.
How would you think it would make sense to perceive these types of consciousness other than through
waves of vibrations?
You never thought about it Pablo, did you?  

You mean 
our consciousness IS also different from anyone elseS and if god existS than god's consciousness must also be different.

I don't understand what the next part means so I can't begin to correct the English mistakes within the statement.

How would I think it would make sense to perceive these types of consciousness other than through waves of vibrations?  No I can't make sense of that question, try and explain it more clearly.

(November 2, 2015 at 11:13 am)Evie Wrote: The problem you have is you keep assuming consciousness is for some reason the exception to the rest of physical reality, you're making special pleading and where is your evidence?

But even if consciousness was non-physical it still is not abstract and is the one thing we are able to sense for sure.
My other point still remain, but I guess you're gonna keep cherry picking like a true theist.

Didn't i say that the illusion play the trick?
We are stuck in this physical body so it seem that we are the body but the consciousness is not physical.
Two different entities go hand in hand as the life goes on.
Most atheists believe that as death occur both body and consciousness die while believers think that as the physical death occur the soul or the consciousness leave the body because the consciousness never die.
NDEs already prove that this is the case but atheists think that this is no evidence at all.
To believe that the consciousness die as the body die is like to believe that the driver of a vehicle die as the vehicle rot away.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Philosophers of all ages try to understand this point so a myriads of theories are there for all to see and believe or not believe.
The problems with most of these theories is however that these people have never engaged themselves with the science of spirituality so most of these theories are just personal ideas.



The concept of consciousness is notoriously ambiguous. It is important first to make several distinctions and to define related terms. The abstract noun “consciousness” is not often used in the contemporary literature, though it should be noted that it is originally derived from the Latin con (with) and scire (to know)................


http://www.iep.utm.edu/consciou/

Lol is this thread still going.

Little Rik: no, an NDE is no evidence at all, mostly because of the N. Give me a credible DE, and we'll talk

Oh for fucks sake "consciousness" is an abstract noun, but consciousness is not abstract at all.

"Love" is just a word but whatever love is, it isn't a word. You can't find love in the dictionary.

But you can find "love" in the dictionary.

Use-mention erroring it up I see Little Rik.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%...istinction

(November 3, 2015 at 8:17 am)Evie Wrote: Oh for fucks sake "consciousness" is an abstract noun, but consciousness is not abstract at all.
"Love" is just a word but whatever love is, it isn't a word. You can't find love in the dictionary.

More confusion Evie.
You state that consciousness is not abstract because i guess you feel as real and so far i quite understand.
I also believe that the consciousness is real but far for saying that such a thing is not abstract.
Has already been established that consciousness is not something physical as our physical senses can not grasp it so if is not physical what else can be other that something non physical.
Now you are free to describe it the way you like it.
I do the same and i term anything that is not physical as abstract and for abstract i mean something outside our physical senses.
By the way if according to you the consciousness is not abstract and not physical how would you describe it? 

(November 2, 2015 at 11:31 am)Cato Wrote:

(November 2, 2015 at 7:55 am)Little Rik Wrote: First you fail to back up with evidence the Nutter story which you agree with that say that the believers are f...ed in the head and that is dishonesty enough, not happy with that you come up with an other story that there is no evidence to say that God exist without you have first consider all option.
Now suppose that you call a plumber to fix your electrical wiring.
Don't you find obvious that he can not possibly carry on the task?
Your ignorance follow the same system.  
You think that with our physical senses we can understand whether God exist or not.
Sorry Cat you fail badly (once again).  

Fucked in the head is an apt description for someone that invokes extrasensory perception as the means of getting after this elusive entity called God.

That is how the system works Cat.
If you want to find gold or oil or anything of great value you got to go way out your normal way.
If also you want to get a degree you got to struggle and fight a lot.
God to me and to a lot of other smart people is a lot higher than gold and any material or physical things so to get to God you got to do extra ordinary things like engaging in extrasensory perception.
If this to you means to be f...ed in the head i am afraid that you haven't so far understood how life and progress work therefore it is you that is in that terrible state not the believers.  

(November 2, 2015 at 2:19 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 2, 2015 at 8:28 am)Little Rik Wrote: You follow the same line of stupidity that Cato follow in thinking that our physical senses are able to grasp anything even what is not physical or thinking that because our physical senses are not getting any evidence of the existence of God then God doesn't exist.
It is by using the correct tool that you may be able to solve a problem but i imagine that when your toilet is not flushing you will call an electrician.  
You are not even funny yog.
You need help.  

How is this even an answer to what I asked?  It isn't.  It's just random bullshit.
Until you can provide some positive evidence that consciousness is not physical, it remains an open question.
You are simply wrong on this.  But that's never stopped you before, has it?

You can do some experiment yog.
Try to touch the consciousness.
Can you?
Can you also smell it, see it or taste it?
If yes you are correct.
Well, let me know how you are going with your experiment.    
Comicality is not your strong art form, isn't it yog?  

OK so I've been on this forum for over a year now. I've listened to hundreds of hours of The Atheist Experience and other theistic discussion type stuff. The results so far:

Step 1: Define god. What is a god?

Answer.... lsdkfmlsdfmwegnwiegnpwiegnwipengpdnsfnsfspdf

So, yeah. I haven't even been able to move on to asking any questions about it because even people who talk to it constantly have no idea what it is.

Also, I realized that religious theists have barely been able to make me understand why they are part of their religion. The only two things I've heard which sound actually honest and convincing to some degree are:

A) That's how I was raised

B) I'm scared to leave the religion

Everything else I've been told does not sound like the real reason. I feel people either don't know the real reason themselves, or are loathe to discuss it. They may fully believe they are telling me the real reason, but I am not convinced that it actually is. Often they present rationalizations that wouldn't convince a drunk zebra. And logical arguments which fall way short of their particular religion, even if they were valid.

Weird. If anyone truly wanted to convince me to join a religion, they should really be able to explain to me exactly why they are part of that religion. If that explanation sounds bogus, what chance do they have of recruiting me?