(November 4, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: [...]
What could possibly Redeem Humans?

Uhm... Nailing a Jew to some wood?...

(November 4, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: What could possibly Redeem Humans?

Crucifying the likes of you?

(November 4, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: Humans are Selfish, Obnoxious and Ignorant. Look at what they've achieved: Destroying forests, forcing multiple species into extinction, Genocide, Global Warming and a never ending parade of Failures and logical fallacies. 

What could possibly Redeem Humans?

Redeem them?  In whose eyes do we need to be redeemed?  That's God talk you have there, except instead of Jehovah you are hinting at Gaia.

That many people think we need to be redeemed IS our redemption, perhaps, in the sense you mean it.  It means ingrained into at least some of our species is enough sense to save the world before it can no longer sustain the species.  We will have to adapt to our success before we die to it.

However, keeping in mind that we are maybe the most adaptible species, and that the greatest among us can carry many millions along for the ride, I think it's very possible that we will be able to turn things around.  And if we don't-- a gray rock formerly known as Earth needs no redemption, and neither will we. The Universe, presumably, will carry on without us, whether we feel redeeemed or not.

Who creates the standard by which to judge humans in regards to whether or not they can be redeemed?
If its humans that create the standard then how can you trust in the judgement given the "never ending parade of failures and logical fallacies"?
If its some type of god then would he not also be in need of redemption seen as it was his hand that set the wheels in motion?
Your question is paradoxical.

I think that the rest of life on earth would be generally better off without us.

However, I certainly don't agree that everyone is terrible. There are many wonderful people who display amazing non-selfish qualities.

I think that, on the whole, people do have a natural tendency to help each other as long as they've been brought up in a vaguely healthy manner. How much they are prepared to help, and how much they may stray given the opportunity will vary of course. People seem to have a tendency to "follow the leader" so if they're brought up in a horrific society where bullshit is the norm, that's generally going to create people who think at least some of that bullshit is "okay".

But society simply wouldn't work if everyone was constantly fucking everyone else over. There is enough wellbeing between us to live peacefully, and that's quite an achievement.

So I say lead by example. Be a good person, support good causes and speak out against harm. Spend your money wisely, because each purchase is a form of support.

Humans can be horrific, and individuals can be unbelievably evil. Many people can be capable of being total dicks, in certain situations. But to focus entirely on that is to miss the good. Consider this: if you ask a random person on the street for directions, how often will they give them to you if they can? I've found it to be almost 100%. There's nothing in it for them. They are put "on the spot" by a stranger, and their natural reaction is to help. Although it doesn't cost anything either, I still think this is important to remember.

The rest of the fish would be better off without sharks. The rest of mammals would be better off without viruses. The rest of plants would be better off without cows.

We are only another part of nature, nothing more, nothing less. Humans have apartments, snakes have shared dens, bees have hives, we all try to get a little in our short time spent inside this mortal coil. Humans are animals. No better, and certainly no worse.

To me we are worse, due to our ability to completely destroy the habitat of other animals and to cause them to go extinct overnight, relatively speaking. That's unique to us. It's just testament to our ability to develop such advanced techniques which can lead to such destruction.

But objectively, we are of course part of nature. We're all animals doing our thing and there is no "better" or "worse". Like morality, it's all a matter of perspective.

let's all put our collective heads together and logically try to roughly determine how the earth would be right now if we only changed one little thing. No human intelligence.
I can't even begin to think where to start! It would obviously be 100% law of the jungle.

(November 5, 2015 at 1:26 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(November 4, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: Humans are Selfish, Obnoxious and Ignorant. Look at what they've achieved: Destroying forests, forcing multiple species into extinction, Genocide, Global Warming and a never ending parade of Failures and logical fallacies. 

What could possibly Redeem Humans?

Redeem them?  In whose eyes do we need to be redeemed?  That's God talk you have there, except instead of Jehovah you are hinting at Gaia.

That many people think we need to be redeemed IS our redemption, perhaps, in the sense you mean it.  It means ingrained into at least some of our species is enough sense to save the world before it can no longer sustain the species.  We will have to adapt to our success before we die to it.

However, keeping in mind that we are maybe the most adaptible species, and that the greatest among us can carry many millions along for the ride, I think it's very possible that we will be able to turn things around.  And if we don't-- a gray rock formerly known as Earth needs no redemption, and neither will we.  The Universe, presumably, will carry on without us, whether we feel redeeemed or not.

Um, in the eyes of Humanity. 
Damn humans are assholes for humans to consider themselves assholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8jJNbLREo