Everyone pointing the finger at religions for being wholesale instigators of this self delusion!

(November 5, 2015 at 8:56 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(November 5, 2015 at 8:26 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Elephants or starfish might be slower, but the ability to destroy habitat is not uniquely ours.

And more to the point, the fact that having had this ability for 60+  years and still having drawn back from the precipice, what does that say about us?

We've been lucky?

That's one way to look at it, sure.

Or another way is to say that our inventions stretch us; what the human mind invents is what pushes the mind further? I mean, we had the same cranial equipment a hundred thousand years ago, but we didn't have the same tool boxes or moral views. Would you deny that progress has happened? Or, alternatively, if you acknowledge that progress, why should it come to a stop now?

(November 5, 2015 at 8:56 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(November 5, 2015 at 8:26 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Humans, like every other animal, have both good and bad qualities. Knowing our power to wreak destruction and yet resisting it speaks well of us: we are making an conscious decision to be more careful.

I agree that we as animals with drives which are destructive when not held in check does not make us unique.  What does make us unique is that, barring some catastrophic event, only we seem capable to keep ourselves in check.  This relates to something Chad said.

This, at the bottom line, is the human responsibility.

(November 5, 2015 at 10:38 pm)Evie Wrote:

(November 5, 2015 at 7:24 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Absolutely.  It is exactly humans' refusal to see ourselves as part of nature, and a tiny part of a massive universe, that makes us act like dicks in the world.

Well that's definitely part of it but there's a whole bunch of reasons! Humans are dicks for many reasons!

But none of those reasons are divorced from the Earth or the things that have transpired on it.  You could say if we wipe ourselves, it's our fault.  Or you could say that something interesting happened on Earth for a while, and then fizzled out, since all the mental activity, feelings, etc. are (at least in theory) just byproducts of Earth's unique chemistry, iron core, the fluke of the moon, etc.

(November 5, 2015 at 9:17 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(November 5, 2015 at 8:26 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Elephants or starfish might be slower, but the ability to destroy habitat is not uniquely ours.

And more to the point, the fact that having had this ability for 60+  years and still having drawn back from the precipice, what does that say about us?

Humans, like every other animal, have both good and bad qualities. Knowing our power to wreak destruction and yet resisting it speaks well of us: we are making an conscious decision to be more careful.

What's this "we" stuff?

I don't know, man.  All it takes is one fucker who thinks God is talking him to push a big red button, and it's on like Donkey Kong.

This "we stuff" is the larger historic trend, that has seen humans go from owning each other, or genociding each other, to our current understanding that such matters aren't really the right thing to do.

The new "in thing" is for everyone to hold hands and fuck up the planet in unison.

EG: when is a good time to stop buying oil? The Chinese alone are opening a new coal plant every week to keep up with power demand!

Whateverist, as a Christian I recognize the call the serve as good stewards of our blessings, including this garden planet full of life and abundant resources. At the same time, I am unwilling to accept that our species has moral obligations to grand abstractions like ‘the environment’ or ‘all living things’. What exactly does ‘Save the Planet’ mean other than a loose collection anti-technology pet causes with big government solutions?

The solutions of Environmentalists universally rely on various bans, forced cut-backs, and resource restrictions enforced by intrusive governmental regulations and diverting taxpayer funds to large politically connected businesses and organizations. In short, they really on top-down suppression of human ingenuity, liberty, and wealth creation.
Some people have been predicting environmental catastrophe and disaster for as long as I have been alive. First there was the ‘Population Bomb’. In order to avert mass starvation and ecological disaster liberal/progressives proposed and of state distribution of birth control, incentives for sterilization, and regulating family sizes. What happened instead was that human ingenuity has made land more productive, the food supply more plentiful and affordable. Sugar from GMOs is chemically identical to organically produced sugar.

During the 1970’s energy crisis, experts predicted that fossil fuels would be depleted long before now. In the meantime, environmentalists have promoted more bans, cut-backs, and resource restrictions like penalizing gas taxes, strict emission controls, and kick-backs to big politically connected companies to develop alternative resources that are unreliable, expensive, and technologically regressive (like windmills). The effect of bans on incandescent light bulbs has helped far less than the introduction of cheap, efficient LED lighting.

Today, the same Cassandras point to ‘Global Warming’ (since renamed ‘Climate Change’) that gets blamed for every problem and always requires an intrusive state solution. While it may be happening, no one can deny that government funds get diverted disproportionately to alarmist researchers and that the proposed solutions are more bans, forced cut-backs, resource restrictions, and diverting governmental resources to politically connected companies. Again. Where is the call to develop truly safe nuclear power? Or economical desalinization? Where is the commitment to extend humanity’s reach beyond one single planet? Why do liberal/progressives harness power from the barrel of a gun and not the power of liberating technology?

I’m not saying some threats, like thermonuclear exchange with the Soviet Union, didn’t exist, but any fair minded person can see that the unilateral disarmament proposed by liberal/progressives did nothing to eliminate that possibility. Tyrannical top-down governmental controls did most of the work of gutting that regime from within.

I’m also not saying that there isn’t a place for governmental promotion of the general welfare that could very well include some bans, regulations, and restrictions. What I am saying though is that returning to pre-industrial revolution technology and encouraging the collusion of big-governments with big-businesses hurt more than they help.

(November 6, 2015 at 10:15 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Whateverist, as a Christian I recognize the call the serve as good stewards of our blessings, including this garden planet full of life and abundant resources. At the same time, I am unwilling to accept that our species has moral obligations to grand abstractions like ‘the environment’ or ‘all living things’. What exactly does ‘Save the Planet’ mean other than a loose collection anti-technology pet causes with big government solutions?

It means give a hoot, don't pollute. It also means, don't be a self-centered douche.

Quote:The solutions of Environmentalists universally rely on various bans, forced cut-backs, and resource restrictions enforced by intrusive governmental regulations and diverting taxpayer funds to large politically connected businesses and organizations. In short, they really on top-down suppression of human ingenuity, liberty, and wealth creation.
Some people have been predicting environmental catastrophe and disaster for as long as I have been alive. First there was the ‘Population Bomb’. In order to avert mass starvation and ecological disaster liberal/progressives proposed and of state distribution of birth control, incentives for sterilization, and regulating family sizes. What happened instead was that human ingenuity has made land more productive, the food supply more plentiful and affordable. Sugar from GMOs is chemically identical to organically produced sugar.

Oh shit. I thought you were kind of a hippy woo-believer. Now I see you're a Republican.

You're also wrong. Do you really think food is cheaper? Gone shopping in the last couple decades?

(November 4, 2015 at 10:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(November 4, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: Humans are Selfish, Obnoxious and Ignorant.

What could possibly Redeem Humans?

Mozart, Bernini, Shakespeare, Newton, Lincoln... I think humans are noble, ingenious, and profound.

And then theres "Honey boo boo"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqvgoPMd7d8

Culling the human race of all those who think humans race needs to be redeemed or saved would redeem and save the human race.

(November 5, 2015 at 6:16 pm)Evie Wrote:

(November 5, 2015 at 4:07 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: ...and this line of reasoning leads to various Final Solutions as we deny the humanity of others by purging it from ourselves.

Most retarded non-sequitur + strawman ever.

The miracle of Christianity is it certainly will enable this or some other Christine to be more nonsensical and stupid tomorrow.