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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 3:47 pm
(November 15, 2015 at 3:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I wouldn't mind you figuring out a way to show that your claims are true...if that's how you plan on avoiding my question. I think it would probably be easier to just answer the question I asked, repeatedly, though. Your call.
Not really sure why you think I have some idea that god is demonstrable through text. Don't you think it would be a little strange, for an atheist like myself, to think that god was demonstrable at all? Similarly, people have experiences, and this is something I don't waste the time arguing against, why would I...I have experiences too. There's no reason for me to doubt that you have or had an experience.
So, again, it seems my purpose here is to be a sounding board for a conversation that you're having with yourself......
so since God is not demonstratable in any way at all thats the answer to your question God is not demonstratable in any way so to expect a demonstration of existence , from me , isnt realistic . its not possible to demonstrate in any way or prove so there is no way to do that only God is able to do that or someday science maybe or maybe not .
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 3:52 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You can't seem to make up your mind as to whether or not god is demonstrable. I guess god is both demonstrable and not demonstrable simultaneously. He's special anyway, the usual rules don't apply. Is that something I can add to the list of things that deists/theists believe? A thing can be both "x" and "not x" at the same time. 
How would knowledge regarding god even be possible, in that case? If I told you that an object was red -and- not red....what color is it, based upon the information I gave? Can you see why discussing god in such a way might not be all that fruitful? Why calling god demonstrable, or presenting -any- information about god as a possible fact, in that case...... is fantasy? If a thing can be both x and not x there is no such thing as a fact to begin with. Truth becomes an empty term.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 3:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 3:56 pm by robvalue.)
Jenny: I understand you're convinced something is communicating with you. What led you to the conclusion that this thing is the creator of the universe? (I assume that's what you mean by god.) How can you tell it's not some alien somewhere with a mind control device? Or a minor deity? Or Satan? Or any other random thing?
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-Bob in Apt. 3b whispering through the AC vents.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:18 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:48 pm by jenny1972.)
(November 15, 2015 at 3:54 pm)robvalue Wrote: Jenny: I understand you're convinced something is communicating with you. What led you to the conclusion that this thing is the creator of the universe? (I assume that's what you mean by god.) How can you tell it's not some alien somewhere with a mind control device? Or a minor deity? Or Satan? Or any other random thing?
just because i use the label of God doesnt mean i think thats the best word for the unknown being i just use that word as a generic description of just something outside my own mind 'outside intelligence' is a better word its just longer than 'God' intelligence of some kind i dont claim to know anything about it so it could be any of the things youve listed or something similar to one of those things but not exact and im sure is more complex than we can imagine .
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:25 pm by robvalue.)
Ah, OK. God is a very misleading term then, I think. Only just now have I realized what you're talking about.
And well... that wouldn't make you a theist, either. Unless you also believe there is a god of course.
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:26 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:34 pm by jenny1972.)
(November 15, 2015 at 3:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You can't seem to make up your mind as to whether or not god is demonstrable. I guess god is both demonstrable and not demonstrable simultaneously. He's special anyway, the usual rules don't apply. Is that something I can add to the list of things that deists/theists believe? A thing can be both "x" and "not x" at the same time.
How would knowledge regarding god even be possible, in that case? If I told you that an object was red -and- not red....what color is it, based upon the information I gave? Can you see why discussing god in such a way might not be all that fruitful? Why calling god demonstrable, or presenting -any- information about god as a possible fact, in that case...... is fantasy? If a thing can be both x and not x there is no such thing as a fact to begin with. Truth becomes an empty term.
demonstratable only for God to human i dont think God is demonstratable human-human but God- human demonstratable but on an individual basis and cannot be demonstrated by the human to other humans . yes demonstratable to individuals but at the same time cannot demonstrate to others so yes that is why i say its fruitless the discussion for people who God has not demonstrated to , but for those who do know what im talking about it would be productive because no demonstration is needed since they already believe . it depends on if your having the conversation with someone who does or does not believe in God.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:31 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Then it's pointless to claim that god is demonstrable. On that note, I can't trust the claim, and apparently you don't feel that it's even possible for you to give me a reason to trust it.
If I claimed that I knew a cure for cancer which I could not demonstrate, which was not -possible- for me to demonstrate, you'd (accurately and justifiably) call me a liar. Why should you and your claim be treated differently?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:39 pm
Let me see if I got this right:
"Are too"
"Am not
"Did too"
"Did not"
"It is"
"Is not"
Did I miss anything?
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RE: what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ?
November 15, 2015 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2015 at 4:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm an outside intelligence, with reference to Jenny. Guess that makes me god too. I wonder what I could get her to believe if I whispered in her ear? You know, the reason kittens evolved to be cute...is because I wanted them to be that way. :wink:
"No you're not"
"ofc I am"
"you can't be"
"ofc I can"
"agree to disagree?"
"never!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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