I've been following this story for a few days and all I can think, great apparently Isis has fucking rocks in their heas

Quote:Come on this is basic stuff here. We're talking about motivation here: Certain fundamentals in certain scriptures taken to the extreme can motivate violence. Not believing in an imaginary God cannot motivate violence.

Once again, making an argument I am not in disagreement with.

I said our behaviors stem from evolution. If you insist that being an atheist is key to being moral, you are the type of atheist I do not trust to pass humanity down a less violent world.

Female lions will help protect other's cubs, male lions have a tendency to kill rival cubs. Just because you take away religious motivations, other motivations will not exist. We are animals too, we forget that we will end up doing no better ourselves.

We observe violence and cooperation in other species as well, humans are no different. Ayn Rand was an atheist but her ideas of economics is very cruel to those with less if she ran for office today, she would have to run on the Republican or Libertarian ticket. Atheists can suffer from flawed logic too.

We are individuals too, we cant forget that just because we hold the common "off" position.

(November 13, 2015 at 7:21 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: As above, borders already shut in France. I hear from a friend connected to the diplomatic service here that other European states will be following suit imminently. Already it begins.

I did have family in Paris and I've been several times. Luckily they don't live there anymore, but still., I love France and Paris. Vive la France.

16 U.S. States are refusing to take in refugees but Obama says plans to accept 10,000 syrian refugees this year is still going forward but these States will not allow refugees in :

-- Alabama
-- Arizona
-- Arkansas
-- Florida
-- Georgia
-- Illinois
-- Indiana
-- Louisiana
-- Massachusetts
-- Michigan
-- Mississippi
-- Ohio
-- Texas
-- Wisconsin
-- North Carolina
-- New Hampshire

States that have announced they will accept refugees:
-- Colorado
-- Delaware
-- Pennsylvania
-- Vermont
-- Washington

i think any religious person coming from a war zone should be monitored that only makes sense since these attacks are religiously motivated and ISIS has stated that they plan to attack US targets . We should still help refugees there will just be a concentration of Syrian refugees in certain U.S. States

I would rather die from an act justified by religious violence, than to turn away one non violent person with no ill intent. Just like I would not deport an "illegal" Latino just because Trump can point to some violence. 

I don't have to like the Koran, or the bible, or religion itself to keep my sense of humanity. We cannot lose our common compassion as a species in the face of such horrors. Now is the time to do better than what was done to us, not use eye for an eye tactics. Go after violent people. Deport violent people or arrest them. Attack the idea of needing religion at all, sure. But don't ever think we are a separate species. Ideas and books do not have rights outside the right to make a claim, but humans always have rights. Suspicion and fear are what they use, we don't need to mimic their fear to keep the secular west in tact.

(November 16, 2015 at 6:35 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I said our behaviors stem from evolution. If you insist that being an atheist is key to being moral, you are the type of atheist I do not trust to pass humanity down a less violent world.

Of course not. I never made that claim. I give up on this debate I haven't got the energy for this now I would never say anything like that

(November 16, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Evie Wrote:

(November 16, 2015 at 6:35 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I said our behaviors stem from evolution. If you insist that being an atheist is key to being moral, you are the type of atheist I do not trust to pass humanity down a less violent world.

Of course not. I never made that claim. I give up on this debate I haven't got the energy for this now I would never say anything like that

Good, then don't even imply it. If atheists are individuals which we are, then we too can have OTHER motivations, like greed, or lust for power. We are not above human behavior because we too are humans. We are not above violence by proxy of label. Our ability to avoid violence is in our evolution, it's called empathy.

(November 16, 2015 at 6:18 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I've been following this story for a few days and all I can think, great apparently Isis has fucking rocks in their heas

I may repeat myself. Taking them for fools is probably the biggest mistake to be made.

(November 16, 2015 at 7:30 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 16, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Evie Wrote: Of course not. I never made that claim. I give up on this debate I haven't got the energy for this now I would never say anything like that

Good, then don't even imply it. If atheists are individuals which we are, then we too can have OTHER motivations, like greed, or lust for power. We are not above human behavior because we too are humans. We are not above violence by proxy of label. Our ability to avoid violence is in our evolution, it's called empathy.

I never even remotely implied it. I never said atheists don't have other motivations or can't be bad also. And of course I already know that I'm not an idiot.

I can talk about the negative consequences of religiously motivated extremism all I want it doesn't even remotely imply that I think atheists are angels, aren't individuals and don't have other negative motivations like everyone else. Why would you think so little of me when I never ever said such a thing neither implicitly or explicitly? I thought you had more respect for me than that I feel very offended honestly, I wouldn't normally be but what upsets me is that I am only offended because I've always thought quite a lot of you and quite highly of you and I thought that that respect was mutual. I don't understand why you would misrepresent me like this when I've not even remotely implied such a thing. It saddens me that you seem to think I'm such a complete idiot because I actually really like you.

Good thing that France has strict gun control which prevents this kind of things.

Quote:I can talk about the negative consequences of religiously motivated extremism all I want it doesn't even remotely imply that I think atheists are angels,

Yes you not only can talk about the negative consequences of religiously motivated extremism, we all should be talking about that. All I said is that atheist not having that particular baggage will not automatically make all atheist saints(strike the word saints, they were not the nice guys people painted them out to be).

I don't think we are disagreeing as much as you like to think. I may be getting a bit pedantic.

But one thing though, "extremism" is coddled by the moderates and the left, all be it well intended, under the guise of protecting pluralism. The word "bigot" and "racist" while can apply rightfully to some, it unwittingly is also used to shut down criticism of religion. X Muslims and even some still in it who cant speak in public where they live that they want us to have those "politically incorrect" conversations. Ayaan Hirsi Ali a former Muslim would not agree with the left that it is always good to censor to keep the peace.