(November 23, 2015 at 7:39 am)Dystopia Wrote:

(November 23, 2015 at 5:05 am)Evie Wrote: No I don't agree.

And no it's not possible to be racist against muslims, for them being muslims that is - because "muslim" is not a race.

However, it is possible to be racist against a muslim in spite of this, just as it is with any other theist (or any atheist). It is possible to be racist against black muslims, white muslims, asian muslims, or any other race.

And of course it would be wrong to be that way.

It is also wrong to think all muslims are "disgusting and backward vermin" as you say, regardless of the fact that muslims are not a race. It's not racist to hate all muslims but it is bigoted.

It is not however, bigoted to hate Islam.

I think it's possible to be racist if you think Muslim = Arab. Arab culture has existed for a long time before Islam and after it, and while both may interconnect many times it's like saying western culture equals only Christianity when there are European countries influenced by Islam and Arabic culture (just think of the time Arabs spent in the Iberia Peninsula). For instance, my parents say "arabs" instead of "Muslims" and they think both are equal, so they believe all Muslims are brown skinned people, that's wrong I think, it's like believing all Protestants are white Anglo-Saxons - The truth is that there are people of Arabic Ethno-Culture who are Muslim, Christian, Jews, atheists, agnostics and free thinkers, and there's a whole bunch of influence other than Islam on Arabic culture.

I agree that it's possible to be racist if one thinks Muslim=Arab, but in that case one would be mistaken. If one hates all Arabs and wrongly thinks all Muslims are Arabs, but it's in fact Arabs that one hates and not Muslims, then one is racist against Arabs of course, not Muslims.

If it's actually all Muslims one hates but not all Arabs, and one thinks all Muslims happen to be Arabs, then one is actually not racist (or at least not against Arabs) but, rather, bigoted against Muslims if one indeed believes that racism is wrong and that if there were any Arabs who weren't Muslim then one wouldn't hate them. But one would, however, still be just as bigoted.

Of course it is possible for one to both hate all Muslims and all Arabs even if one realizes that not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslims, in that case one would be both bigoted against Muslims and racist against Arabs.

But the question is still "So does one hate all Arabs, all Muslims or both?" and also the two-fold question "If one hate all Arabs, is it for being Arabs, or is it because one wrongly believes they all happen to be Muslims? In the same way, if one hates all Muslims is it for being Muslims or is it because one wrongly believe that they all happen to be Arabs?"

And the fact of the matter in both cases is whether it's bigoted against all Muslims or all Arabs, whilst the former is not racist but the latter is, both forms of bigotry are equally unethical. 

(Apologies for so many uses of "one" instead of the hypothetical "you", I was not intending to sound like The Queen of this country lol!  (I'm from the UK of course) I was merely trying to avoid too many hypothetical uses of the word "you" in case you or anyone else made the mistake of thinking that there was any chance whatsoever that I meant you personally and specifically).

(November 23, 2015 at 8:25 am)robvalue Wrote: Islamic texts are backwards, ignorant and violent. Just like Christian texts.

Muslims, on the other hand, are free to interpret the texts any way they like. If they interpret them literally and live by those principles, then they will be backwards, ignorant and violent. Same with Christians. Or they can cherry pick/interpret and be decent people, like many do.

QFT, perfect post.

(November 23, 2015 at 8:51 am)robvalue Wrote: That is an excellent position to take.

I agree and if all Muslims were like Reza Azlan that would certainly be awesome, because it would do away with Islamic extremism.

However, Reza Azlan is still a disingenuous asshole that regularly misrepresents Sam Harris, very probably on purpose.

(November 23, 2015 at 4:58 am)Shaddam IV Wrote: Do you agree. I agree.
Also, is it possible to be racist against muslims?

No I don't agree.  Are there people who have disgusting views that identify as Muslim, yes.  Are all Muslims?  No.  There are people with disgusting views from all idealogies though.  I think the Westboro Baptists have really disgusting views and they identify as Christian.  There are those that identify as Buddhists, Scientologists, Atheists, Deists, Wiccan, whatever you want that may hold disgusting views about something.  But it really boils down to our subjective view on the topic and how we personally define a view disgusting.  You are painting with broad brushes, and that I find disgusting.  

Racism and muslim don't coincide.  You can be racist against someones ethnicity, but not their religion, that would be discrimination not racism.  There are white muslims, indian muslims, black muslims, etc.

Absolutely correct KP and well said.

(November 23, 2015 at 12:17 pm)Evie Wrote:

(November 23, 2015 at 8:51 am)robvalue Wrote: That is an excellent position to take.

I agree and if all Muslims were like Reza Azlan that would certainly be awesome, because it would do away with Islamic extremism.

However, Reza Azlan is still a disingenuous asshole that regularly misrepresents Sam Harris, very probably on purpose.

I think Reza Aslan has had a beef with Harris for quite some time, and therefore it's normal that both of them misinterpret and pick on each other - That's how "rivalries" work in the media and anywhere else. That being said, I think Aslan is a good academic on religion, how to understand religion, its history and symbols, etc, and perhaps because of that he eventually came to the position of merely adopting the symbology but he doesn't seem like the kind of person who prays 5 times a day.

What, no poll?

Ha, I went looking for it too. Like "Wtf? Where is it? Did he forget to add it?" lol.

(November 23, 2015 at 2:40 pm)Losty Wrote: What, no poll?

Every thread, Losty.

You make every thread sexual!

(November 23, 2015 at 2:44 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(November 23, 2015 at 2:40 pm)Losty Wrote: What, no poll?

Every thread, Losty.

You make every thread sexual!

45% of the time it is unintentional. xD