(December 14, 2015 at 5:20 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(December 14, 2015 at 5:11 pm)Kingpin Wrote: hey now, don't lump us all in one group.  I'm sure many will attest that this is one theist who on multiple occasions has stood up for the atheists on this topic.  Atheism by definition is not a religion.  At best it can be argued to be a belief but only in reference to Gnostic Atheism.  As it has no practices, tenets or structure it is not a religion but merely a proclamation on a single topic.  It can fall under the classification of a worldview, but that is not the same thing as a religion.

You're right.  But you can't deny that the "atheism is a religion" canard isn't a ploy often used by some theists.

For what it's worth, you and CL are among the more reasonable theists we have here, and your lack of pretense is refreshing.

No doubt there and I will always admit as much and call it for what it is.  Its a ploy to put both sides on equal ground by using very broad strokes, but when you cut down to the details, they are not comparable.

(December 14, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Cato Wrote:

(December 14, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hm?

Why are you lumping the OP in with us? She is agnostic/open minded as far as I can tell. Not a theist.

Psst, you dropped this...

Her religious views say "no idea". To me, this sounds more agnostic than anything else. If you ask someone if they believe in God and they say "I don't know", you wouldn't consider them a theist.

(December 14, 2015 at 5:17 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(December 14, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hm?

Why are you lumping the OP in with us? She is agnostic/open minded as far as I can tell. Not a theist.

We've had a few members recently who have portrayed themselves as open-minded seekers, whose every post reeks of a Christian stalking horse.  Delicate struck me as one of these almost from the start.

Ah, gotcha.

(December 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Her religious views say "no idea". To me, this sounds more agnostic than anything else. If you ask someone if they believe in God and they say "I don't know", you wouldn't consider them a theist.

Her posting history here tells a far different tale.

@Catholic_Lady

That definition is used in a different context than the one the OP is describing. 

For example, someone might "religiously follow football", but that's not the same as treating football as an actual religion, is it? You're comparing an apple and an orange here. By that kind of logic, anything can be a religion. Political parties are a religion. Donating to charity is a religion. Raising a child is a religion. Sports is a religion. Bike-riding is a religion. Just because you see something as important or you get into debates about it or you care about it, doesn't automatically make it religious as in the same context as actual religion. Those definitions are separated for a reason. It is to separate their uses in our society. Religion (as in religious beliefs like Christianity or Catholicism) is under the first definition. And so to say that atheism is a religion in the same way, it must be proven to fall under the first defintion as well. Or else you are not making an accurate comparison.

I don't mean to be the one comparing anything. Just pointing out how she must have gotten that definition.

I agree, atheism is merely the disbelief in God and that is not a religion. However, there are atheists out there who certainly treat it like it is meant to be.

(December 14, 2015 at 4:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think this can be true for some atheists, but not all.

How many times must it be said - what a person thinks is largely irrelevant. What they can demonstrate is all that matters.

(December 14, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Poor theists. They know deep down they don't have the goods to demonstrate that any of their horseshit is true, so they resort to painting atheists with the same brush as themselves to suggest a false equivalency. It must suck to have a faith system that practically requires dishonesty.

"I know you are, but what am I?" didn't cut it on the playground. It doesn't work any better here.

Yep I agree, but it is also why I warn atheists not to go around saying "When we become the majority(which may or may not happen) we will treat you better".

A label does not automatically determine if the individual will be violent or non violent, cruel or compassionate. We still are ultimately the same species. I only agree that religion takes our human behaviors, both good and bad, and distorts them into a comic book battle between Superman vs Lex Luther.


Atheist are not super human either, we don't have magic powers or special privilege.

(December 14, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Vincent Wrote: @Catholic_Lady

That definition is used in a different context than the one the OP is describing. 

For example, someone might "religiously follow football", but that's not the same as treating football as an actual religion, is it? You're comparing an apple and an orange here. By that kind of logic, anything can be a religion. Political parties are a religion. Donating to charity is a religion. Raising a child is a religion. Sports is a religion. Bike-riding is a religion. Just because you see something as important or you get into debates about it or you care about it, doesn't automatically make it religious as in the same context as actual religion. Those definitions are separated for a reason. It is to separate their uses in our society. Religion (as in religious beliefs like Christianity or Catholicism) is under the first definition. And so to say that atheism is a religion in the same way, it must be proven to fall under the first defintion as well. Or else you are not making an accurate comparison.

And this is where the Dolphinetics comes into play.

"Atheism is a religion just as much as any other!"
"No it's not, for all these reasons."
"But the dictionary says a religion can be 'A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.' "
"Well, by that token everything's a religion."
"Aha - gotcha! So you agree that atheism is a religion!"

(December 14, 2015 at 6:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't mean to be the one comparing anything. Just pointing out how she must have gotten that definition.

Yea, I know. It's a common mistake made by some people that I wanted to expose. 

And yes, there are atheists out there who are assholes about their beliefs and rub it in people's faces like street preachers. Thankfully the majority of us aren't like that.