Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
December 16, 2015 at 8:04 pm (This post was last modified: December 16, 2015 at 8:05 pm by Lek.)
(December 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I thought you clowns claimed to have read this shit?
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt 25
So let me guess....your precious KJV fucked up the word "everlasting" and if you write it on a piece of paper and stand in front of a mirror and shove it up your own ass it does not mean that?
Well, you are correct that the Greek word doesn't directly translate into "everlasting", but more closely "for the age". In other words, it could mean a limited time, which seems to be better supported by scripture.
(December 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I thought you clowns claimed to have read this shit?
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt 25
So let me guess....your precious KJV fucked up the word "everlasting" and if you write it on a piece of paper and stand in front of a mirror and shove it up your own ass it does not mean that?
Well, you are correct that the Greek word doesn't directly translate into "everlasting", but more closely "for the age". In other words, it could mean a limited time, which seems to be better supported by scripture.
Which Greek word is that and which Greek alphabet is it written in?
(December 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I thought you clowns claimed to have read this shit?
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt 25
So let me guess....your precious KJV fucked up the word "everlasting" and if you write it on a piece of paper and stand in front of a mirror and shove it up your own ass it does not mean that?
Well, you are correct that the Greek word doesn't directly translate into "everlasting", but more closely "for the age". In other words, it could mean a limited time, which seems to be better supported by scripture.
Really: Courtesy of the fine folks at Bible Gateway.com
Quote:◄ Matthew 25:46 ►
Parallel Verses New International Version
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
New Living Translation
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Study Bible
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Berean Literal Bible
And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life."
adjective eter·nal \i-ˈtər-nəl\
: having no beginning and no end in time : lasting forever
: existing at all times : always true or valid
: seeming to last forever 17 of the finest words for drinking »
[url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/top-ten-lists/the-finest-words-for-drinking/jingled.html]
Full Definition of ETERNAL
1 a: having infinite duration :everlasting <eternal damnation>
c: characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)>
2 a: continued without intermission :perpetual <an eternal flame>
b: seemingly endless <eternal delays>
3 archaic:infernal <some eternal villain … devised this slander — Shakespeare>
4 : valid or existing at all times :timeless <eternal verities>
So only the KJV translates the word as "everlasting" while everyone else goes with "eternal." I submit the difference is inconsequential but it does suggest to me that you grasping at straws.
(December 14, 2015 at 6:05 pm)TrueChristian Wrote: Dear friends,
I have had a sad thought about my savior today.
I realize He is the word, He is the truth (Not Muhammad! Got it?!?!)
That being said, I realized he is much different from most of the Gods of history.
Take the Greek/Roman Gods for example. They weren't nice entities. But unlike Jesus, they doled out one's lot in the afterlife based upon their conduct on earth. Zeus never sent anyone to Hades for not believing in him. Jesus will do just that.
There doesn't seem to be "justice" in terms of Hell. Its basically, no matter what everyone deserves to be burned in tortured forever. It's just certain people with magic coupons (Christians) can escape that fate.
I realized... Jesus is the ONLY God who operates in this fashion.Not Thor, Not Shiva, Not Quezalcoatl. Only Jesus
It seems Jesus will barely take pity on those who died in the holocaust. As terrible as their suffering was in Aushwitz, it would be nothing compared to their suffering for rejecting Jesus. The Christian camp guards on the other hand... will be a-ok, as long as they believed in Jesus
I am so depressed.. it almost makes me think you dark creatures have at least a point, though I will talk and pray about this issue with my pastor.
Firstly I suggest that you seek wise counsel.
Secondly, I'm sincerely concerned that no one has preached the gospel to you. The gospel is the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 15:1-4). And the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). And the Gospel is received by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9). So what does it mean that the gospel is the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. [Life] Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1,14), born under the law (Gal 4:4), fulfilled the law perfectly (Romans 10:4), was made to be sin [who knew no sin], that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor 5:21). [Death] Our sin debt was removed at the cross (Col. 2:13-14), the shedding of blood forgives sins (Matt 26:28), the testament [we the beneficiaries] was established by the blood and death of Christ (Hebrews 9:16-17). [Resurrection] Without Christ's resurrection we are not justified, and with it we have hope of our resurrection (1 Cor. 15:16-23).
The point isn't that somehow our 'belief' in Jesus Christ is elevated to the point that denying it (unbelief) condemns us to hell (this point can be made superficially by saying something like it's ok to murder but God will send you to hell if you don't believe in Him), but rather we stand condemned because apart from Christ there is no forgiveness for any of our sins (unbelief, murder, hatred, lying cheating, stealing, etc. etc.). There is only one sacrifice for sins. There is only one who can impute righteousness. There is only one who can reconcile man to God. That is the man Christ, Jesus. Trusting in his life, death, burial, and resurrection is the power of God unto salvation.
"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe for there is no difference: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time, his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Romans 3:21-26)
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
(December 16, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Lek Wrote: Well, you are correct that the Greek word doesn't directly translate into "everlasting", but more closely "for the age". In other words, it could mean a limited time, which seems to be better supported by scripture.
Really: Courtesy of the fine folks at Bible Gateway.com
Quote:◄ Matthew 25:46 ►
Parallel Verses New International Version
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
New Living Translation
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Berean Study Bible
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Berean Literal Bible
And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life."
adjective eter·nal \i-ˈtər-nəl\
: having no beginning and no end in time : lasting forever
: existing at all times : always true or valid
: seeming to last forever 17 of the finest words for drinking »
[url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/top-ten-lists/the-finest-words-for-drinking/jingled.html]
Full Definition of ETERNAL
1 a: having infinite duration :everlasting <eternal damnation>
c: characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)>
2 a: continued without intermission :perpetual <an eternal flame>
b: seemingly endless <eternal delays>
3 archaic:infernal <some eternal villain … devised this slander — Shakespeare>
4 : valid or existing at all times :timeless <eternal verities>
So only the KJV translates the word as "everlasting" while everyone else goes with "eternal." I submit the difference is inconsequential but it does suggest to me that you grasping at straws.
As usual.
As usual you ignored what was said. Lek appealed to the Greek. Your counterargument was to show different English translations. Engage the actual argument......
The same Greek word, aiōnion, is used for both the 'punishment' and the 'life.' So it would follow that if hell's punishment was limited in duration then heaven's life would also be limited in duration. Greek text Definition of aionion
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
Really: Courtesy of the fine folks at Bible Gateway.com
Which of course leads to the question of what does "eternal" mean in plain English?
Well:
So only the KJV translates the word as "everlasting" while everyone else goes with "eternal." I submit the difference is inconsequential but it does suggest to me that you grasping at straws.
As usual.
As usual you ignored what was said. Lek appealed to the Greek. Your counterargument was to show different English translations. Engage the actual argument......
The same Greek word, aiōnion, is used for both the 'punishment' and the 'life.' So it would follow that if hell's punishment was limited in duration then heaven's life would also be limited in duration. Greek text Definition of aionion
(December 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I thought you clowns claimed to have read this shit?
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt 25
So let me guess....your precious KJV fucked up the word "everlasting" and if you write it on a piece of paper and stand in front of a mirror and shove it up your own ass it does not mean that?
Again not disputing that Hell is ever lasting. I'm saying we will be consumed/destroyed by that punishment. Why? Because again Jesus said we would be "consumed, Killed, burned up, destroyed " (He used all those words many different times) by the fires of Hell.
So why is Hell ever lasting if we are not? Because 'we' are not the only thing being punished in Hell.
Hell is not Satans realm, he is tortured in Hell like anyone else. It is for Him that Hell is ever lasting. Again we know this because Christ specifically says Satan (calls him by name) will Burn forever in Hell.
And again my personal thoughts are that our time spent burning is based on who were are and the evil in our heart. It was my 'experience' that some will not make it past the gates of Hell before they are consumed. At the same time I also believe some will be in Hell a Long long time.
(December 17, 2015 at 3:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote: [/hide]
As usual you ignored what was said. Lek appealed to the Greek. Your counterargument was to show different English translations. Engage the actual argument......
The same Greek word, aiōnion, is used for both the 'punishment' and the 'life.' So it would follow that if hell's punishment was limited in duration then heaven's life would also be limited in duration. Greek text Definition of aionion
Which Greek alphabet is that word written in?
So, let me see if I have this right: We're on an atheist forum, where the vast majority of the members supposedly do not believe that god, heaven, or hell exists. Most of us are in agreement that the Holy Babble is a deeply flawed piece of human literature.
A quote was made from 11 English translations regarding the meaning of "eternal" or "everlasting".
So, somebody who apparently is not a Greek scholar looks up a Greek word - gets conflicting translations - and tries to use it to prove his original point . . . by strongly implying that all of the English translations are, well, to be generous, let's say "unclear". Lek's original point seems to be that Hell is not ETERNAL torture. It's a finite period of time.
Drippy Doodle gets into the mix somehow, but I have him on ignore.
Is no-one going to point out that 1) the entire argument is spurious and moot to people who don't believe in the existence of god or hell; 2) Lek's pleading to the mis-translation of this passage can be applied to the entire book with ease, and 3) attempting to re-define hell and its duration is acknowledging that the original concept is flawed, illogical, unbelievably cruel and unfair?
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
Really: Courtesy of the fine folks at Bible Gateway.com
Which of course leads to the question of what does "eternal" mean in plain English?
Well:
So only the KJV translates the word as "everlasting" while everyone else goes with "eternal." I submit the difference is inconsequential but it does suggest to me that you grasping at straws.
As usual.
As usual you ignored what was said. Lek appealed to the Greek. Your counterargument was to show different English translations. Engage the actual argument......
The same Greek word, aiōnion, is used for both the 'punishment' and the 'life.' So it would follow that if hell's punishment was limited in duration then heaven's life would also be limited in duration. Greek text Definition of aionion
Hey, fuckface. He can "appeal" to Greek all he likes. Religious shitballs who get paid to translate this bullshit INTO ENGLISH agree with each other about the meaning of the fucking word.
So, we have professional translators in agreement and we have some bible-thumping shithead desperately looking to get his bullshit out of trouble by pretending that it does not say what it clearly says.
December 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm (This post was last modified: December 17, 2015 at 2:38 pm by Lek.)
(December 16, 2015 at 9:38 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Which of course leads to the question of what does "eternal" mean in plain English?
So only the KJV translates the word as "everlasting" while everyone else goes with "eternal." I submit the difference is inconsequential but it does suggest to me that you grasping at straws.
As usual.
The question isn't what does the word "eternal" mean, but rather what does the word "aionios" mean, because the verse was written in Greek, not English. The word clearly has meaning other than the English word "eternal". If someone goes to hell for a limited time and then is annihilated, his punishment is eternal even though he doesn't spend eternity in hell, but he is gone for eternity, which could support Drich's view. On the other hand, Plato who is credited with likely inventing the word, used aionious in referring to certain souls in Hades who are to return to earth - hardly an eternal punishment. Plato saw aionios punishment as always being of God, with any punishment of God (who is eternal) as having eternal consequences. When speaking of the gods, who were eternal, he used a different Greek word - "aidios", which referred to them living eternally versus using aionios, belonging to time, when speaking of humanity. Anyway, the bible speaks clearly that Jesus came to save the "world". That's all of us.
