(December 20, 2015 at 9:21 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: How is that second even supposed to be a miracle?  Given your obsession with it, I'm guessing you're a stealth Muslim.

I want "Stealth Muslim" to be a kids cartoon show so fucking bad now. 
I even have the theme tune in my head. It would be animated by the same guys who did Arabian Knights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdwXCELYJrQ

(December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am)truth search Wrote:

(December 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: 1) Observation.
2) Observation.

/thread

i think that you are right because there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but the problem that confused me: if mohamed is the only man that observate these two phenomena or not?
because muslims could say that mohamed is the only man who said that the wind have a role in raising clouds and that there no year is rainfull than another  , so, it can't be an observation. because if it is an observation many others will have the same observation.
it's true that we can responding them by proving that there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but if we prove that there are another men that observate these two phenomena, we wil refute their claim completely.
so, i began my research, and i found that the romans philosoves thinks that the "Wind transported water to the clouds":
http://greenoakschurchofchrist.weebly.co..._cycle.pdf

Talking about the second phenomena, it just simply isn't true.  The amount of rainfall on earth isn't exactly the same each year.

Second of all the reasoning behind the miracle not being true in this case is very faulty.

How could Muhammad have observed that rainfall is the same each year globally before he even knows that America exists?

I agree it's not a miracle, BUT only on the basis that the amount of rainfall each year on earth isn't the same, but I disagree with the reasoning that it's not a miracle because Muhammad just observed this.

(December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am)truth search Wrote:

(December 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: 1) Observation.
2) Observation.

/thread

i think that you are right because there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but the problem that confused me: if mohamed is the only man that observate these two phenomena or not?
because muslims could say that mohamed is the only man who said that the wind have a role in raising clouds and that there no year is rainfull than another  , so, it can't be an observation. because if it is an observation many others will have the same observation.
it's true that we can responding them by proving that there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but if we prove that there are another men that observate these two phenomena, we wil refute their claim completely.
so, i began my research, and i found that the romans philosoves thinks that the "Wind transported water to the clouds":
http://greenoakschurchofchrist.weebly.co..._cycle.pdf

Better research, after 15 seconds on Google:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...#Antiquity

Observe discussions in India, 3000 BC, by those who understood, notwithstanding their incorrect idea on how, that the movement of the earth causes wind, which gives rise to clouds.

3000 BC was a very, very long time before Mohammad.

Bullshit busted, Mohammad really wasn't all that special.

(December 20, 2015 at 10:24 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(December 20, 2015 at 8:27 pm)truth search Wrote: hi everyone, 
muslims claim that there are many scientific miracles in the quran, i found that the most of them are false, but there are two miracles that i didn't found any proof that they are false:
the first is the the aya 48 of the surat 30 that said:
"It is Allah who sends the winds, and they raise the clouds."
the scientist of meteorology until 19th century didn't know that the winds have a role in the raising of clouds, so how mohamed before 1400 years knew that?


the second, mohamed said that: 
"rainfall in one year is no less (in amount) than that falling in another year, it is only allah distributes the rain"
the science proved in our days that 505000 cubic kilometres of water falls as precipitation each year.
how mohamed before 1400 years knew that ?

thank you and i'm sorry if my english is not good.

The second one is wrong.  The earth has changed a lot in the billions of years of it's existence.  There's been ice ages, changes in the suns brightness in relation to the earth.  The formation of oceans on the earth was due enormous amounts of rainfall after the atmosphere began to cool and water could actually exist on earth.  It also says on Wikipedia that rain precipitation is changing globally due to global warming.

2nd point.  There is no scientific proof that I have found that exactly 505000 cubic kilometres of water falls each year.  I've seen on Wikipedia and other sites it says that is an approximate amount  .  The science wouldn't say it was approximate if it was proof that exactly that much falls.  Plus it's approximately dealing with cubic kilometres which isn't small amounts.  And as I said in my previous point I'm nearly certain this is since the existence of weather records or at least since humans have inhabited the Earth which is a miniscule portion of the entire earths history.

3rd point.  It doesn't say which rain, where, or what type of rain.  The science hypothesizes that some planets may have iron rain, some neon rain.  (neon rain or iron rain would be such a fucking cool name for a band, just a thought.)

(December 21, 2015 at 8:47 am)paulpablo Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am)truth search Wrote: i think that you are right because there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but the problem that confused me: if mohamed is the only man that observate these two phenomena or not?
because muslims could say that mohamed is the only man who said that the wind have a role in raising clouds and that there no year is rainfull than another  , so, it can't be an observation. because if it is an observation many others will have the same observation.
it's true that we can responding them by proving that there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but if we prove that there are another men that observate these two phenomena, we wil refute their claim completely.
so, i began my research, and i found that the romans philosoves thinks that the "Wind transported water to the clouds":
http://greenoakschurchofchrist.weebly.co..._cycle.pdf

Talking about the second phenomena, it just simply isn't true.  The amount of rainfall on earth isn't exactly the same each year.

Second of all the reasoning behind the miracle not being true in this case is very faulty.

How could Muhammad have observed that rainfall is the same each year globally before he even knows that America exists?

I agree it's not a miracle, BUT only on the basis that the amount of rainfall each year on earth isn't the same, but I disagree with the reasoning that it's not a miracle because Muhammad just observed this.

the wiki says:
" Approximately 505,000 km3 (121,000 mi3) of water falls as precipitation each year" 
it's completely false?

(December 21, 2015 at 1:27 pm)truth search Wrote:

(December 20, 2015 at 10:24 pm)paulpablo Wrote: The second one is wrong.  The earth has changed a lot in the billions of years of it's existence.  There's been ice ages, changes in the suns brightness in relation to the earth.  The formation of oceans on the earth was due enormous amounts of rainfall after the atmosphere began to cool and water could actually exist on earth.  It also says on Wikipedia that rain precipitation is changing globally due to global warming.

2nd point.  There is no scientific proof that I have found that exactly 505000 cubic kilometres of water falls each year.  I've seen on Wikipedia and other sites it says that is an approximate amount  .  The science wouldn't say it was approximate if it was proof that exactly that much falls.  Plus it's approximately dealing with cubic kilometres which isn't small amounts.  And as I said in my previous point I'm nearly certain this is since the existence of weather records or at least since humans have inhabited the Earth which is a miniscule portion of the entire earths history.

3rd point.  It doesn't say which rain, where, or what type of rain.  The science hypothesizes that some planets may have iron rain, some neon rain.  (neon rain or iron rain would be such a fucking cool name for a band, just a thought.)

(December 21, 2015 at 8:47 am)paulpablo Wrote: Talking about the second phenomena, it just simply isn't true.  The amount of rainfall on earth isn't exactly the same each year.

Second of all the reasoning behind the miracle not being true in this case is very faulty.

How could Muhammad have observed that rainfall is the same each year globally before he even knows that America exists?

I agree it's not a miracle, BUT only on the basis that the amount of rainfall each year on earth isn't the same, but I disagree with the reasoning that it's not a miracle because Muhammad just observed this.

the wiki says:
" Approximately 505,000 km3 (121,000 mi3) of water falls as precipitation each year" 
it's completely false?

I'm at work right now and on my phone typing this so I can't copy and paste all the relevant links easily.

Wikipedia says this is an approximate amount. So it's not exact. Also you need to search for how climate has changed of billions of years on earth. I suspect the rainfall amount of 505000 is an approximate amount since records began but as I said just make your own judgement.

If you look at the earths changes in climate, ice ages, times when the earth was so hot it had no oceans, then it cooled and the atmosphere rained down creating the oceans, heat changes due to global warming, do you think the global amount of rainfall every single year on earth has always been the same?

(December 21, 2015 at 9:23 am)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am)truth search Wrote: i think that you are right because there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but the problem that confused me: if mohamed is the only man that observate these two phenomena or not?
because muslims could say that mohamed is the only man who said that the wind have a role in raising clouds and that there no year is rainfull than another  , so, it can't be an observation. because if it is an observation many others will have the same observation.
it's true that we can responding them by proving that there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but if we prove that there are another men that observate these two phenomena, we wil refute their claim completely.
so, i began my research, and i found that the romans philosoves thinks that the "Wind transported water to the clouds":
http://greenoakschurchofchrist.weebly.co..._cycle.pdf

Better research, after 15 seconds on Google:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...#Antiquity

Observe discussions in India, 3000 BC, by those who understood, notwithstanding their incorrect idea on how, that the movement of the earth causes wind, which gives rise to clouds.

3000 BC was a very, very long time before Mohammad.

Bullshit busted, Mohammad really wasn't all that special.

i found also that the linga purana (hindu book dated back to 600 C.E ) says:
" after getting the sun light, the water in most of the materials on earth get converted to smoke (vapour) and ascends to sky with the air and is the cause of cloud formation. these clouds cause rainfall under the guidance of lord indra, having thousand eyes".
you can find the text here:
https://books.google.fr/books?id=if5BWWi...22&f=false

---

(December 21, 2015 at 1:36 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 1:27 pm)truth search Wrote: the wiki says:
" Approximately 505,000 km3 (121,000 mi3) of water falls as precipitation each year" 
it's completely false?

I'm at work right now and on my phone typing this so I can't copy and paste all the relevant links easily.

Wikipedia says this is an approximate amount.  So it's not exact.  Also you need to search for how climate has changed of billions of years on earth.  I suspect the rainfall amount of 505000 is an approximate amount since records began but as I said just make your own judgement.

If you look at the earths changes in climate, ice ages, times when the earth was so hot it had no oceans, then it cooled and the atmosphere rained down creating the oceans, heat changes due to global warming, do you think the global amount of rainfall every single year on earth has always been the same?

thank you for the clarification.

It's the second phenomenon, though. Not "the second phenomena" unless a group of several phenomena is collectively counted as the second item.

Oh, great, another one taking religious bullshit for hidden messages. I'm sure with some shaping and bending, you can find further examples how your book of choice is true. But rest assured, a Superman comic could provide you with the same level of scientific truth. How could they know?