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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 2:30 am
I'm just struck by how vague, flowery statements get translated to have specific meanings not obvious from the original wording.
What you really have are some wordings in the Koran which are sufficiently vague enough to allow you to read them as saying something true which the original authors should not have know in their time. How to explain it? Simple, the analysis of the text has changed, not the intention of the author.
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 2:34 am
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2015 at 2:35 am by robvalue.)
Hi there 
Even if someone knew something amazing, that doesn't demonstrate where they got the information from. The truth of one of their statements doesn't automatically make any further statements true. They must also demonstrate that they really did get the information the way they said.
The word "miracle" seems pretty meaningless to me. If an event is unexplained, then it is unexplained. That doesn't mean that anyone can insert their own explanation and claim it is true without evidence. That is called the argument from ignorance: claiming an explanation is true because no other explanation has yet been found. It's obviously flawed, because the argument "works" for any made-up magical explanation for the unexplained event. Religion thrives on gap filling knowledge with unfalsifiable statements.
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 4:08 am
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2015 at 4:23 am by truth search.)
thank you everyone for your comments,
I'm not a muslim, not a christian and not atheist, i am a researcher for the truth.
In fact, i found that there are many scientific mistakes in the quran, and the alleged scientific miracles in the quran are two types:
First, they are the result of an abusive interpretation of the quran (sometimes, a scientific mistake become a miracle with an abusive interpretation, for example, the commentators of the quran until 19th century said that the sun revolves around the earth, ibn baaz (in the second half of the 20th century) insisted that the sun revolves around the earth, and the earth is fixed, but, in our days, some muslims said that the quran says that the earth revolves around the sun, and that is scientific miracle of quran!!)
Second, there are some true scientific facts in the quran, but they are discovered before the quran, for example, some muslims says that the quran says that the earth is round, and that is a miracle! maybe the first half of their claim is true, but the second is surely false, because greeks knew that that the earth is round before 1000 years of mohamed (pythagoras).
i said, may be the scientifics and philosophes of greeks, romans, chinese, indians or any nations talked about the role of wind in raising clouds or about the quantity of rainfall each year before mohamed?
thank you.
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 4:16 am
(December 20, 2015 at 8:27 pm)truth search Wrote: the second, mohamed said that:
"rainfall in one year is no less (in amount) than that falling in another year, it is only allah distributes the rain"
The first part of that quote is correct, but the second part is not - rainfall is distributed by the chaotic weather system, not by God.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 4:16 am
Zombies are real. There are documentaries about them on the tv all of the time. I see some in the back yard right now.
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 5:05 am
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2015 at 5:07 am by robvalue.)
I'm glad to hear you are searching for the truth
I believe the whole truth will forever be outside our grasp, and it's the discomfort this brings that often motivates people to accept religious answers rather than just say "We don't know yet. We may find out, we may not."
You certainly don't find out anything by making stuff up.
If people in the past knew things, then obviously they found them out somehow. Finding out how they knew may not be possible, it depends how much evidence we have that we can consider. But they had brains, eyes and ears, and a lot of time to experience things. It's fairly reasonable to assume that they came to conclusions much the same way as we do now.
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 5:31 am
Can the quran tell me whether the photon excess at the LHC is due to a new heavy particle and which kind? That would be real useful right about now.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 5:43 am
I think you are still trying desperately to cling onto the Quran, and hopefully by coming to our forum, we will eliminate your confusions and you will see truth. You appear to value truth. You don't come across as one of those smarmy apologist types with no interest in truth, despite how much they may claim the opposite.
I had my own troubles with so-called miracles in the Quran so I can certainly empathize. For example the use of the word "pharaoh" in the Quran. Fortunately, I now know that the word "pharaoh" as English speaking people understand it actually comes from Greek "Pharao", not (ancient) Egyptian. As I understand it, ancient Greeks misunderstood the Egyptian as the Egyptian word " Pero'" means "great house" not king. Knowing that there is Greek science in the Quran, I figured this is another thing the author of the Quran did not give the Greeks credit for.
Believe me, there is always a more sensible explanation then Allah! And besides, science changes all the time. Using science to justify the Quran is a bad idea. And it will cause me to become very angry with you. As an example, the only place human embryos look like leeches are on doctored (misleading) images on Dawah websites.
Good website:
http://thebetterquran.com/
If you can understand Arabic, this website is probably worth a look:
http://suralikeit.com/
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 6:12 am
'Scientific miracle' is an oxymoron.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: two scientific miracles puzzled me?
December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2015 at 7:15 am by truth search.)
(December 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: 1) Observation.
2) Observation.
/thread
i think that you are right because there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but the problem that confused me: if mohamed is the only man that observate these two phenomena or not?
because muslims could say that mohamed is the only man who said that the wind have a role in raising clouds and that there no year is rainfull than another , so, it can't be an observation. because if it is an observation many others will have the same observation.
it's true that we can responding them by proving that there are many scientific errors in the quran.
but if we prove that there are another men that observate these two phenomena, we wil refute their claim completely.
so, i began my research, and i found that the romans philosoves thinks that the "Wind transported water to the clouds":
http://greenoakschurchofchrist.weebly.co..._cycle.pdf
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