(December 30, 2015 at 4:19 am)robvalue Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 2:01 am)robvalue Wrote: It is perfectly justified to ask what created god if the premise of an argument is that everything needs a creator.

Further thought:

When someone defines something that doesn't need a creator, after stating everything needs a creator, all they are showing is that their initial premise is wrong. It's self defeating.

Of course we have desperate attempts to smuggle things in, by essentially saying "everything that isn't God needs a creator" which is begging the question.

I don't know if it's begging the question too hard.  It seems like everything needs a 'creator.'  But it also seems like something needs to not have had a creator at some point.  I think that's very simplistic, and even if I ascribed to it, I see no reason to settle on God as an answer, but the rules seemed to be different back on day 1.

Personally, I'm comfortable with saying "who knows?" and not worrying about it.

(December 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: As a muslim, I am not allowed to use profanity because Islam teaches me to respect people, regardless of their beliefs and views. Please, I would like it if you respect me as a human, and not use profanity. You are not a Muslim, and you do not have a degree on Islam, you speak on a few researches you have done through the internet. I advise you to talk to Muslim Scholars who have a masters in Islam. I advise you to watch Reza Aslan, Ahmed Deedat, Maajid Nawaz and etc.

This is kind of a weird logic I never understood about society and profanity. I mean words themselves aren't inherently right or wrong it's all just in our heads. No such thing as profanity.

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(Following is a general reply to the discussions)

Physicists knows the history of our universe to 10^-43 seconds after the big bang. And in string theory the singularity itself can be mathematically explained by incorporating super tiny 7 extra dimensions into the mix. So if a sentient higher power does exist in these extra dimensions, then God is a very small man ;P

Dawkins' arguments in his books have been refuted by peer Atheists who are experts in philosophy or logicians who know to spot bad argument. I don't know why people take Dawkins' seriously.

(December 31, 2015 at 3:09 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Dawkins' arguments in his books have been refuted by peer Atheists who are experts in philosophy or logicians who know to spot bad argument. I don't know why people take Dawkins' seriously.

Citations please.

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 5. Antony Flew in his book states:

Now, clearly theists and atheist can agree on one thing: if anything at all exists, there must be something preceding it that always existed. How did this eternally existing reality come to be? The answer is that it never came to be. It always existed. Take your pick: God or universe. Something always existed

I'll take "The Universe" for $500, Alex (edit: Goddamnit, Whatevs got there first, that sly old bastard). It has tons more evidence, and doesn't ask me to believe horseshit. It presents brute reality, unlike any god you can name.

However, Flew is still making the same special-pleading fallacy Anselm did centuries ago. Just because he changed his mind doesn't mean he got it right.

(December 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: As a muslim, I am not allowed to use profanity because Islam teaches me to respect people, regardless of their beliefs and views. Please, I would like it if you respect me as a human, and not use profanity. You are not a Muslim, and you do not have a degree on Islam, you speak on a few researches you have done through the internet. I advise you to talk to Muslim Scholars who have a masters in Islam. I advise you to watch Reza Aslan, Ahmed Deedat, Maajid Nawaz and etc.

I respect you as a human, but I'm a cussing sonofabitch. How about you stop trying to tell me what to believe and how to talk, and I will respect your delicate sensibilities?

Do I go into your abode and start cussing? Why, then, should you come here and start preaching? Respect is a two-way street, pal.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:01 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: It is too complex for science to understand at this point.

Then the obvious thing to say is, you don't know and neither do I, because your faith isn't knowledge any more than my truck is a ham sandwich.

(December 23, 2015 at 2:12 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: Therefore it is safe to conclude that God is out of space.

How, exactly, can you know anything about what happens "out of space"?

Protip: A book written by another human in space has the same exact problem with this question.

(December 23, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote:

(December 23, 2015 at 3:09 pm)robvalue Wrote: You can have a god, I couldn't care less. It's claiming to know all about it while also claiming it's outside anything we can ever experience that is the problem.

But you can have the Allah God too. I'm not fussed. Makes no odds to me. I almost forgot that I'm god! Slipped my mind while I was on holiday. I made all those videos about it.

Well, it is not something I can have, the concept of God is axiomatic. God is there, the evidence is overwhelming. It just depends on the evidence you are exposed to.

You clearly have no idea what axiomatic means ... or evidence, for that matter.

(December 31, 2015 at 3:09 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Dawkins' arguments in his books have been refuted by peer Atheists who are experts in philosophy or logicians who know to spot bad argument. I don't know why people take Dawkins' seriously.

Oh, no please.  
I just had my dinner.
Don't do that to me Mystic.  
After years that i asked atheists what is the meaning of philosophy
i still wait for an answer that make any sense.
Give me a brake mate.  

(December 31, 2015 at 3:13 am)Jenny A Wrote:

(December 31, 2015 at 3:09 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Dawkins' arguments in his books have been refuted by peer Atheists who are experts in philosophy or logicians who know to spot bad argument. I don't know why people take Dawkins' seriously.

Citations please.

inb4 pro muslim site and or no response.
Momo the pedo is a lost soul and was banished to the 9th dimension by FSM.
Free bacon and women with exposed faces for everyone in this thread!!!

(December 31, 2015 at 8:25 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(December 31, 2015 at 3:09 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Dawkins' arguments in his books have been refuted by peer Atheists who are experts in philosophy or logicians who know to spot bad argument. I don't know why people take Dawkins' seriously.

Oh, no please.  
I just had my dinner.
Don't do that to me Mystic.  
After years that i asked atheists what is the meaning of philosophy
i still wait for an answer that make any sense.
Give me a brake mate.  

I have a masters in philosophy, I got it delivered to me by the mighty FSM during a tantric mediation session.

(December 31, 2015 at 9:00 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(December 31, 2015 at 8:25 am)Little Rik Wrote: Oh, no please.  
I just had my dinner.
Don't do that to me Mystic.  
After years that i asked atheists what is the meaning of philosophy
i still wait for an answer that make any sense.
Give me a brake mate.  

I have a masters in philosophy, I got it delivered to me by the mighty FSM during a tantric mediation session.

Very well son.
So the meaning of philosophy is............?