(January 3, 2016 at 11:39 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: I find it very annoying when theists play fast and loose with the definition of the word "knowledge."

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

(January 3, 2016 at 9:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:35 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Scientific knowledge. Spiritual belief. You can have spiritual knowledge but it is only knowledge about the belief.

What would you put belief in morals and human value in? In spiritual belief or scientific knowledge?

Human nature?

(January 4, 2016 at 11:54 am)robvalue Wrote: What the hell is an atheist's agenda?

I was wondering the exact same thing. Baby feasting?

Haha. Yeah!

The idea that all atheists share an agenda shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole situation.

Personally, my "agenda" is to speak out against harm, and to encourage rational thought and education.

(January 4, 2016 at 11:56 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 11:39 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: I find it very annoying when theists play fast and loose with the definition of the word "knowledge."

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

Correction: that is YOUR biased interpretation of the definition of knowledge.

The problem with knowledge being a true belief is that no one can ever be certain that anything is true. So what is actually knowledge, out of our "knowledge" is unknown and unknowable I would say. Also, if it is true, justification is irrelevant.

It is a tricky word to define, for sure. Informally, I'd just say knowledge on a personal level is justified belief. The knowledge pool however represents beliefs that have stood up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny from everyone and still appear to be most likely true. So again it is justified belief, with the justification being much more rigorous.

These are just my definitions.

(January 4, 2016 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: Haha. Yeah!

The idea that all atheists share an agenda shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the whole situation.

Personally, my "agenda" is to speak out against harm, and to encourage rational thought and education.

I find it perplexing how so many theists are unable to grasp the concept of "lack of belief." We are given such an inflammatory reputation for being, in general, a pretty unobtrusive group of people.

I know, it is ridiculous.

Some of them also seem to think we need to justify the position before we're allowed to hold it, and as such we must employ devious tricks to deny the obvious fact that we are wrong.

It's a mindset of someone who is totally and utterly given over to fantasy.

(January 4, 2016 at 12:06 pm)robvalue Wrote: The problem with knowledge being a true belief is that no one can ever be certain that anything is true. So what is actually knowledge, out of our "knowledge" is unknown and unknowable I would say. Also, if it is true, justification is irrelevant.

It is a tricky word to define, for sure. Informally, I'd just say knowledge on a personal level is justified belief. The knowledge pool however represents beliefs that have stood up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny from everyone and still appear to be most likely true. So again it is justified belief, with the justification being much more rigorous.

These are just my definitions.

For me, something falls out of the knowledge category when you are unable to justify it to anyone but yourself. Like you said, if something can hold up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny by many others we can be at least more certain (if never 100% certain) that it is true. The dictionary definition of knowledge includes knowledge by way of personal experience, but not by pure experience alone.

It is my experience that when I give extra protein to patients with bed sores, they get better. Though this IS a personal experience, I can also demonstrate it to the rest of the medical team, to the patient, to the patient's family, and I can reproduce those results over and over again. If I just claimed to have knowledge of how to heal bed sores, by casting an anti-bed sore spell, but none ever actually healed, then I don't actually have any knowledge about how to heal bed sores. It's not justified. Even if I really, really, believe that I KNOW, at the end of the day I have no way of demonstrating it.

(January 4, 2016 at 12:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: I know, it is ridiculous.

Some of them also seem to think we need to justify the position before we're allowed to hold it, and as such we must employ devious tricks to deny the obvious fact that we are wrong.

It's a mindset of someone who is totally and utterly given over to fantasy.

Ugh...I find religion terrifying. The fixation on non-believers scares me. I have seen so much anger here from Christians toward atheism...the mentality is just bizarre.