Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge

[Kingpin]

Interesting, have you also seen the reverse on here and what are your thoughts on that (atheists anger toward Christians/Theists)?

I have no personal anger toward theists.  What you choose to believe is none of my business unless your belief is directly harming me in some way.  If there is anger toward theists here, it is because this is an ATHEIST forum, and atheists get annoyed with theists coming here and regularly telling us how stupid and ignorant we are.  This is our home, leave us be.

I wasn't insinuating you were and those that know me on here would know that I never proselytize or impose my beliefs on anyone.  I was merely wondering if you have seen atheists on this site also have immense anger towards believers just as you say Christians come on here in anger towards non-believers.  I agree with you that each persons beliefs are their own and should stay that way.

Where I don't agree is your last statement.  Yes this is called Atheist Forums but from what I understand is this is a place for people of all beliefs to come and have respectful discourse regarding any topic including religion.  There are rules in place to stop the preachers and I fully support them, I just want to make sure I was not misunderstanding you and that you feel Christians (or other theists) should just leave and not post because I don't see how that is beneficial for anyone.  How can we grow as individuals if we don't reach out to others who believe differently than us and have respectful conversation?

[Brian37]

Interesting, have you also seen the reverse on here and what are your thoughts on that (atheists anger toward Christians/Theists)?

I have no personal anger toward theists.  What you choose to believe is none of my business unless your belief is directly harming me in some way.  If there is anger toward theists here, it is because this is an ATHEIST forum, and atheists get annoyed with theists coming here and regularly telling us how stupid and ignorant we are.  This is our home, leave us be.

Hold on now, we annoy each other too. I don't care if they say stupid things about atheists, I do, but only in the context of their bad use of logic. If we only have atheists on this website theists cant learn from us, nor at a minimum, can they see that we are not goose stepping Nazis who always agree. We don't always agree and that alone is a good reason to have theists here. They cant paint us as fascists.

If I wanted a circle jerk I would not be on this website.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The problem with knowledge being a true belief is that no one can ever be certain that anything is true. So what is actually knowledge, out of our "knowledge" is unknown and unknowable I would say. Also, if it is true, justification is irrelevant.

It is a tricky word to define, for sure. Informally, I'd just say knowledge on a personal level is justified belief. The knowledge pool however represents beliefs that have stood up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny from everyone and still appear to be most likely true. So again it is justified belief, with the justification being much more rigorous.

These are just my definitions.

Indeed. It is only by comparing our observations with those of others that we can arrive at an approximation of objective reality.

For those who would make the obvious objection, I regard an objective reality as axiomatic, given the reasoning that a subjective reality would require a subject to exist. Yes, it's Cartesian. That's about as close as I come to philosophy.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Ugh...I find religion terrifying.   The fixation on non-believers scares me.  I have seen so much anger here from Christians toward atheism...the mentality is just bizarre.  

Interesting, have you also seen the reverse on here and what are your thoughts on that (atheists anger toward Christians/Theists)?

I have. Perhaps I'm biased, but I assign it to the fact -- and it's a fact -- that atheists are one of the few remaining groups against whom prejudice is permissible in our society. Of course, being on the receiving end of prejudice tends to get one's hackles up, and overcoming that seemingly natural defense is difficult (speaking for myself -- others might find it easy). That's not seeking to excuse it, but explain it.

[Edwardo Piet]

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

know|ledge. [ˈnɒlɪdʒ] NOUN 1.facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject:  "a thirst for knowledge" ·  [more] synonyms: understanding · comprehension · grasp · grip ·  [more] 2.awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation:  "the programme had been developed without his knowledge" ·  [more] synonyms: awareness · consciousness · realization · recognition ·  [more] 3. archaic sexual intercourse.

Oh and you think your belief is justified.

Theists do think their beliefs are justified.

But then, everyone does. Is it even possible to believe in something without believing you're right to do so? I think not.

But yeah, the theists are wrong. But I was just sayin'

[brewer]

Scientific knowledge. Spiritual belief. You can have spiritual knowledge but it is only knowledge about the belief.

What would you put belief in morals and human value in? In spiritual belief or scientific knowledge?

Belief, but not spiritual.

[Neo-Scholastic]

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

Correction:  that is YOUR biased interpretation of the definition of knowledge.

Then I'm in good company, starting with Plato. That said, debates over the definition concerns the nature of justification, theories of truth, and the problems of fortuitous beliefs. But your ignorance prevents you from raising those legitimate issues in any thoughtful way.

[Edwardo Piet]

What would you put belief in morals and human value in? In spiritual belief or scientific knowledge?

Belief, but not spiritual.

Yeah... spiritual really doesn't come into it.

[Angrboda]

I find it very annoying when theists play fast and loose with the definition of the word "knowledge."

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

Is there justified true belief of spiritual things? How does one verify that their beliefs about spirituality are justified and true?

What of the spiritual is considered knowledge?

[Neo-Scholastic]

I find it perplexing how so many theists are unable to grasp the concept of "lack of belief."

Oh, we get it. It's either disingenuous or trivial. If it's a simply a lack of belief then it is trivial. Except when it isn't. For some reason it is really really important for you to take a stance in opposition to the proposition that God(s) exist.