Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge

[Excited Penguin]

That's great, you're spot on.

How to get through to them? I think sometimes reaching a common ground can go a long way. Maybe indulge some of them in their fantasies to a certain extent, and then you can reasonably ask them to do the same and look at the world through your lenses.

[Edwardo Piet]

The addition of "spiritual" to "knowledge" is meaningless in all contexts unless you're talking about knowledge of whisky, brandy, rum, vodka, etc.

[Kingpin]

I know, it is ridiculous.

Some of them also seem to think we need to justify the position before we're allowed to hold it, and as such we must employ devious tricks to deny the obvious fact that we are wrong.

It's a mindset of someone who is totally and utterly given over to fantasy.

Ugh...I find religion terrifying.   The fixation on non-believers scares me.  I have seen so much anger here from Christians toward atheism...the mentality is just bizarre.  

Interesting, have you also seen the reverse on here and what are your thoughts on that (atheists anger toward Christians/Theists)?

[robvalue]

The problem with knowledge being a true belief is that no one can ever be certain that anything is true. So what is actually knowledge, out of our "knowledge" is unknown and unknowable I would say. Also, if it is true, justification is irrelevant.

It is a tricky word to define, for sure. Informally, I'd just say knowledge on a personal level is justified belief. The knowledge pool however represents beliefs that have stood up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny from everyone and still appear to be most likely true. So again it is justified belief, with the justification being much more rigorous.

These are just my definitions.

For me, something falls out of the knowledge category when you are unable to justify it to anyone but yourself.  Like you said, if something can hold up to a reasonable amount of scrutiny by many others we can be at least more certain (if never 100% certain) that it is true.  The dictionary definition of knowledge includes knowledge by way of personal experience, but not by pure experience alone.  

It is my experience that when I give extra protein to patients with bed sores, they get better.  Though this IS a personal experience, I can also demonstrate it to the rest of the medical team, to the patient, to the patient's family, and I can reproduce those results over and over again.  If I just claimed to have knowledge of how to heal bed sores, by casting an anti-bed sore spell, but none ever actually healed, then I don't actually have any knowledge about how to heal bed sores.  It's not justified.  Even if I really, really, believe that I KNOW, at the end of the day I have no way of demonstrating it.  

Sometimes I have beliefs, but I can't justify them to myself. It's in those situations where I seek evidence to convince myself, or else accept it is nothing but intuition or a hunch and not to put too much stock in it.

I think the difference between a sceptic and a non-sceptic is the ability to assess one's own beliefs and methods of collecting "evidence" as objectively as possible. In other words, the sceptic is very aware that they are fallible and seeks to minimise errors this can cause.

[Brian37]

There is no such thing as "spiritual knowledge". That is just superstition, a gap answer, be it old books of myth or new age woo. It is simply over conflating our natural sense of wonder to comic book and or si fi claptrap.

I can have a deep sense of awe about nature and the universe and relationships without trying to create a bullshit utopia word for mundane reality. Yes life has some awesome things in it, but it also has some very nasty things in it. I can be just as much in awe of nature in it's destruction as I am with the constructive side. Reality does not need to be sexed up with gap words rooted in human ignorance.

[Mystic]

You said human nature regarding human value and morals. So is this a belief about human nature or is it a justified belief and warranted belief that is true (knowledge)?

It it scientific or something else?

[Brian37]

You said human nature regarding human value and morals. So is this a belief about human nature or is it a justified belief and warranted belief that is true (knowledge)?

It it scientific or something else?

MK, understanding reality by measuring it through the tool of scientific method is not advocating humans should be emotionless robots or be lawless criminals. 

There simply is no need for gap filling now. If there are competing claims those claims can be tested and compared and falsified and peer reviewed through scientific method.

What humans do outside labs is a mater of human rights, but only a lab is where we find knowledge. I have no doubt you ask anyone of any religion if they believe it is true, I do however doubt their perception of reality.

Wanting what you believe to be true is not the same as having evidence for it. Again we make the same arguments to any other religious claim from any other religion.

[Red_Wind]

You said human nature regarding human value and morals. So is this a belief about human nature or is it a justified belief and warranted belief that is true (knowledge)?

It it scientific or something else?

Value and morals are human concepts, they change though time and every culture has different values and morals.Heck, every human has different morals and values and they are ever changing.

Social science perhaps?

[LadyForCamus]

Ugh...I find religion terrifying.   The fixation on non-believers scares me.  I have seen so much anger here from Christians toward atheism...the mentality is just bizarre.  

Interesting, have you also seen the reverse on here and what are your thoughts on that (atheists anger toward Christians/Theists)?

I have no personal anger toward theists. What you choose to believe is none of my business unless your belief is directly harming me in some way. If there is anger toward theists here, it is because this is an ATHEIST forum, and atheists get annoyed with theists coming here and regularly telling us how stupid and ignorant we are. This is our home, leave us be.

[downbeatplumb]

I find it very annoying when theists play fast and loose with the definition of the word "knowledge."

The definition is quite simple: justified true belief. Any qualifications of that definition come from your own bias.

know|ledge. [ˈnɒlɪdʒ] NOUN 1.facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject:  "a thirst for knowledge" ·  [more] synonyms: understanding · comprehension · grasp · grip ·  [more] 2.awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation:  "the programme had been developed without his knowledge" ·  [more] synonyms: awareness · consciousness · realization · recognition ·  [more] 3. archaic sexual intercourse.

Oh and you think your belief is justified.