We can only blame Reagan... in the end...

(January 14, 2016 at 12:53 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:

I really, really, really, REALLY hate the guilt by association fallacy. It's not an argument, it's a red herring at best.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Vic Wrote: I really, really, really, REALLY hate the guilt by association fallacy. It's not an argument, it's a red herring at best.

No, it's not.

How did Germany's crime rates fair under Hitler?

(January 14, 2016 at 1:01 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Vic Wrote: I really, really, really, REALLY hate the guilt by association fallacy. It's not an argument, it's a red herring at best.

No, it's not.

Hitler liked Wagner. Ergo anyone who listens to Wagner is a nazi?

(Unless you aren't being serious. I'm bad at this whole communication thing )

(January 14, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Vic Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:53 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:

I really, really, really, REALLY hate the guilt by association fallacy. It's not an argument, it's a red herring at best.

I think the Nazis had at least a few guns.

by the way in the UK we have rigid gun laws and so far it's going great.

(January 14, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Vic Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 12:53 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:

I really, really, really, REALLY hate the guilt by association fallacy. It's not an argument, it's a red herring at best.

A brief...and I mean BRIEF...search on some of these claims shows the utter desperation of GUN NUT Nation.  Much like jesus-freaks, when history does not support them they make shit up.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_tal...ut_hitler/

Quote:Unfortunately for LaPierre et al., the notion that Hitler confiscated everyone’s guns is mostly bogus. And the ancillary claim that Jews could have stopped the Holocaust with more guns doesn’t make any sense at all if you think about it for more than a minute.

University of Chicago law professor Bernard Harcourt explored this myth in depth in a 2004 article published in the Fordham Law Review. As it turns out, the Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime. After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.

The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.
The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns, but this should not be an indictment of gun control in general. Does the fact that Nazis forced Jews into horrendous ghettos indict urban planning?

So that's one.

Next we have the stupid claim that Pol Pot took away guns in 1956...which was 20 years BEFORE he became the leader of Cambodia.


I suppose I could look up Stalin and Mao...where naturally "gun ownership" among the poverty-stricken peasanty was a major concern... and find out how much total bullshit is included in those claims.  But I imagine you get the idea by now.

For me the whole "tyrannical government" angle isn't something that enters my reasoning at all. I'm much more concerned with the suicides and accidental deaths in which guns are involved. Will making guns illegal point blank stop people from getting their hands on guns? No. But I don't think it's ludicrous to support background checks and have periodic mandatory safety training. I just don't want to see anymore 'toddler shoots self with father's loaded gun' headlines.