(January 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)ktrap Wrote: ...
I do not follow Atheism
...

How would one follow atheism exactly?  There's nothing to be followed.

Even when I was a theist, I couldn't do the church thing. I just felt silly as fuck.

A few examples of the thoughts that would run through my young mind:

"Weren't we just talking about how shitty the Browns' did? Why are you saying 'thy' now?"

"You're old as hell, get off your damn knees. I've never seen you on your knees at home. This is weird."

"Why is everyone saying they love God more than their families, when their actions clearly show the opposite? My mom'll get mad if you talk shit about God. She'll fight you if you talk shit about me."

"Ha fun game of tag, Mike. Now lets go recite shit we don't understand."

"Time for this dude to talk to Jesus while I close my eyes and pretend that this shit is normal."

"Look at this jerk waving his hands in the air like a crazy person."

"Alright, got my eyes closed and my head down. Wonder if I'm doing it right?" *takes a peek* "well, I don't know, some people are doing different stuff."

(January 18, 2016 at 9:24 am)robvalue Wrote: I've noticed a major sticking point that commonly occurs in theist/atheist debates. A religious theist often seems to think that if they can convince the atheist that god is real and their religion is "true", then the atheist would automatically convert to the religion.

This is just completely wrong. My refusal to join any religion has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. I find the whole idea ridiculous, and I am simply not interested. So even if you did manage to convince me your religion is the "real one", I wouldn't care. I'd just be a theist with no religion, someone who believes in god but does not worship it.

I have got the feeling a lot of people here share this view, so I thought it would be interesting to collect some names. So if you have the same stance as me, please post here! I thought it could be useful to point people to when they are making the very basic mistake I have outlined. Some people seem literally incapable of understanding this, and I don't know how much clearer I can make it. The more open minded theists however seem to understand this just fine.

Some theists simply don't understand that something being real doesn't mean we have an obligation to worship it.

My mother is real.  She literally gave birth to me and is responsible for one half of my creation.  She has done a fuck ton more to be a positive and active influence in my life than any god.  But I'm not going to worship her.  I'm not going to simply default to her judgement if I think she's wrong about something.  I'm not going to be fearful of disagreeing with her, or disobeying her, or anything else.

Theists generally make a weak retort along the lines of "But god created the universe," as though the purported power disparity between it and me makes a difference.  As though might makes right.  Which is ridiculous, because if god is going to punish me for not obeying it, even though I'm not harming anyone else, then it doesn't deserve worship anyway.

So, no, no religion for me regardless of god's existence.

(January 18, 2016 at 1:39 pm)robvalue Wrote: Ktrap: Atheism is not a choice. It's a state of mind. It's not about being an option. The option is whether to join religion or not. An atheist can join a religion and pretend, many have little choice.

 I thought I clearly stated my view.  I am a theist not part of any religion.
 
 Why I do need to part of a religion?

 Is this a requirement for theists?

  And regarding my point on Atheism as an option.  Leaving all religions aside, an individual who contemplates on the existence of God either believes in the existence of God or does not (or perhaps refuse to believe) the existence of God.  This is what I was referring to as the option or what you are calling state of mind.  My state of mind (as per your line of thought) is Theism.

(January 18, 2016 at 1:59 pm)mediocrates Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)ktrap Wrote: ...
I do not follow Atheism
...

How would one follow atheism exactly?  There's nothing to be followed.

 True, I don't accept Atheism.  However, there are always the few that follow others without thinking for themselves (may it be religion or atheism). 

 Example, "I am atheist because my parents did not go to church and they are atheist" I am not saying that this applies to everyone, but there will always be some.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:20 pm)ktrap Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 1:59 pm)mediocrates Wrote: How would one follow atheism exactly?  There's nothing to be followed.

 True, I don't accept Atheism.  However, there are always the few that follow others without thinking for themselves (may it be religion or atheism). 

 Example, "I am atheist because my parents did not go to church and they are atheist" I am not saying that this applies to everyone, but there will always be some.

And that's true for many theists as well.  It seems, from what I've seen and read, that the religion you belong to is usually more cultural than a choice.  "My parents were (insert religion and religious sub-category here) and so am I."

Me.

Count me in.  I think Thump stated my position best . . . even if there was a god, a powerful, fair, and beautiful being, and I was totally overwhelmed with awe . . . that doesn't mean I'm going to join a group that will dictate how I approach this being, how I think, how I respond to believers and non-believers.  

Such groups almost immediately go to an "us against them" and "we're right, they're wrong" mentality.  And then this god would have to step in and keep them from killing then non-believers . . . just 'cause somebody decided that a group was necessary.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 3:20 pm)ktrap Wrote:  True, I don't accept Atheism.  However, there are always the few that follow others without thinking for themselves (may it be religion or atheism). 

 Example, "I am atheist because my parents did not go to church and they are atheist" I am not saying that this applies to everyone, but there will always be some.

And that's true for many theists as well.  It seems, from what I've seen and read, that the religion you belong to is usually more cultural than a choice.  "My parents were (insert religion and religious sub-category here) and so am I."

  a) You have not understood anything about me , because i already stated I am a theist not part of any religion and it is my choice.  Or is that something you don't feel I can choose?
  b) And where did I mention that the example only applies to atheists?  The sentence before includes religion and atheism and the conversation was about "How would one follow atheism exactly? "  So I just trying to answer it in those terms.
  c) From what I gather about you, it seems you are following atheism without choice.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:40 pm)ktrap Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Beccs Wrote: And that's true for many theists as well.  It seems, from what I've seen and read, that the religion you belong to is usually more cultural than a choice.  "My parents were (insert religion and religious sub-category here) and so am I."

  a) You have not understood anything about me , because i already stated I am a theist not part of any religion and it is my choice.  Or is that something you don't feel I can choose?
  b) And where did I mention that the example only applies to atheists?  The sentence before includes religion and atheism and the conversation was about "How would one follow atheism exactly? "  So I just trying to answer it in those terms.
  c) From what I gather about you, it seems you are following atheism without choice.

Wow, really?

1.  Okay, if we're redefining theism to not be associated with religion, you need to define what it is (hint: a "relationship with god" doesn't count)
2.  I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm agreeing with you and just added to your comment.  Don't get defensive
3.  I'm an atheist because I've found no evidence or reason to believe in any deities.